My Testimony (page 2)

Unclepenn1

Hey Undisfellowhipped, thank you for your testimony. The irony is that people are scolding and ridiculing you for practicing the exact same system of belief as they do. You see, Gita jumped on your back and called you a fanatic for believing that there is only one path to truth (Jesus/Christianity) and then purports her/his only path which is universalism, and by doing so, excludes your 'path'. It is classic self refutation. Saying 'Dont be so narrow by saying there is only one way', and then giving you a 'one way' option (her/his way). 'All roads lead to God, unless you think that only one does, then yours doesnt'. Doesnt make a wee bit of sense. I appreciate your testimony, and that you have found peace with God. Warm regards, Penn

Joker10

What do you have to say about when Jesus said to Satan "It is only your god Jehovah that you must worship"?

crinklestein

Unclepenn, I guess he meant that he believes in universalism, that all roads lead to God. All roads but Undishfellowship's. And all roads as long as he agrees with them. I think alot of people here have trouble getting the ONE WAY methodology out of their heads after leaving the JWs. They still have that mentality that what they think is the only way and when someone else says what they believe they get ridiculed. Folks! You are not JW's anymore. Get rid of your elitist "I'm right and your wrong" attitude. It seems that the only thing that has changed since some of you left is just some of your beliefs. But the way that you hold those beliefs hasn't changed and I think that's the most important thing that NEEDS to change.

Gordy

joker10

Actually the scripture says " You must worship the Lord your God..."

The Greek word used is Kurios = Lord not Jehovah. No NT manuscript has Jehovah here.

A footnote in the WT Kingdom Interlinear Translation states that "kurious" = Lord, NOT Jehovah.

Only the Watchtowers version of the Bible puts Jehovah in this verse.

LoverOfTruth

Wow! you have a lot to say and I certainly understand. You have been given the strength necessary to break free and that took a lot of courage!

I would recommend you now sit (figuratively speaking) in the father's lap and allow him to hold you. Just be quiet for awhile. He loves you so very much! That's something most witnesses don't understand.

Don't forget to pray for those still in the darkness.

UnDisfellowshipped

I am going to reply to everyone's comments in one post here:

JT said:

Do you believe that only Christians have an approved relationship with God?

Yes, but only true Christians -- this means only the people who believe in the True Jesus Christ of the Bible (and not the false Jesus Christ of the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Freemasons, etc.)

There is absolutely nothing that humans can do to earn this approved relationship (unlike what the Watchtower teaches), the Bible says that humans are Saved only by the grace [unearned kindness and favor] of Jesus Christ through faith in Him and His Sacrifice and Resurrection.

That way, since there is no way to earn salvation, no one can boast or brag about what he or she has done to earn salvation. Salvation is totally 100% absolutely done by God. Once you are Saved, God blots out ALL of your sins -- past, present, and future, because Jesus Christ already paid the penalty on the Cross for those sins.
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Undecided said:

I've seen too much hypocrisy practriced by those who have been saved to conclude that it is from God. I went to a church for a year and heard all you say preached, but there is no consensus between christain religions as to the understanding of the bible. Just look at all the different churches and no two will agree on doctrines.

I agree -- there is way, way too much hypocrisy and lies in organized religions.

Currently, I do not even go to any Church, and I do not follow any human. I only follow what I read in the Scriptures. I do have some Christian friends who have helped me have a better understanding of the Bible, and various Christian Websites have also helped me.

Undecided said:

The way you see Christ as being God proves to me that the ransom doctrine is BS. If God had to die so that he could present himself to himself in order to forgive mankind of sin that he made us inherit by some mystical way we can't understand, and then be born himself by one of these sinful creatures in order to die as a human, it makes me think the real Creator would be a little mad at this made up story.

This is what I believe about the Ransom:

First of all, there is Only One God, but in that One God there are Three Separate Persons, The Father, The Son [Jesus Christ], and The Holy Spirit. All Equal in Nature, Essence, and Qualities.

When Adam sinned, a direct sin and rebellion against God, Adam automatically came under the death penalty that God had warned him against. Adam instantly "died" spiritually -- he was cut off from an approved relationship with God -- Adam, and all of his sinful offspring, are separated from the Holy God because God's Perfect Holiness cannot accept sinners in His presence. God's absolute Justice will not allow sinners to be pardoned without someone paying their penalty. No sinful human could pay the penalty for another sinful human in order to take away their sins.

God also has absolute Love.....

God The Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things, including humans, willfully and willingly decided to come to Earth, be born as a Perfect Sinless Human (and at the same time, keeping His Nature and Essence of God), and Jesus willingly was born into a poor family, and grew up in a poor family.

Jesus Christ showed everyone how they should live their life -- He gave us the absolute perfect example to follow.

God The Son willingly received false accusations, slander, and then finally He willingly experienced agonizing torture, and then He gave His Life and Blood once for all time on the Cross as THE Sacrifice to The Father -- at that moment in time, The Father placed all of the sins of all of the people will ever believe in Jesus, onto Jesus, so that at that moment when Jesus gave His Life, Jesus paid the price for ALL of those sins forever.

Then, on the third day, Jesus Christ arose from the dead, and 40 days later, Jesus ascended into Heaven and sat down at the right hand of The Father on His glorious throne.

Whenever anyone who believes in Jesus sins, The Father blots out that sin because The Son already paid the penalty for that sin on the Cross.

So, do you believe that "the true Creator" is mad because people believe that God would have so much love for humans that He would come down to Earth, humble Himself so much that we cannot even comprehend how much He had to humble Himself, then teach us and show us the perfect way to live, and then willingly receive slander and torture from His own infinitely inferior creation.

What God could have greater love than that?

In that way, everything that God's followers must experience, including torture and death, God has Himself experienced those things and triumphed over them.

God does not ask His followers to experience anything that He Himself has not experienced.

Undecided said:

If it makes you happy, go for it and enjoy your newfound religion.

Thank You Very Much for your kind words!

Undecided said:

The history of those who beleived it turns me off though, and those I now know who follow it doesn't impress me much either.

I agree, and it is very sad that so many people who claim to follow Christ do so many evil and wicked things in the Name of Jesus -- it is sickening to think about.
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gitasatsangha said:

A fanatic is a fanatic is a fanatic. I can not accept any system of belief which says it is the only true path. That is where so much suffering and trouble comes from in the world. Forget all the mumbo jumbo and just try to get along. If what works for you is good, that's great. I'm glad you found a path. Now get it out of my face.

Well, thanks for your comments Gita.
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Francois said:

"Have you faith? Have it unto yourself."

Thanks for your comments as well Francois.
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QCA1 said:

THE WORLD IS MY COUNTRY TO DO GOOD IS MY RELIGION. Said by Robert Henry Paine.

MY SENTIMENTS EXACTLY.

Thanks for your comments too, and I am very happy to hear that you are doing good things!
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Crinklestein said:

VERY well said! That's a very good point and I never even thought about that! But it is true, the theif never did any one of those things, and yet he was saved. That strengthens my thoughts that religion is a PERSONAL thing and has nothing to do with going to church or engaging in man made ceremonies and making any public displays. I HATE groups or churches that's soul purpose is to make a big display of LOOK AT ME! I'M GOING TO CHURCH! I MUST BE SUPER RELIGIOUS! LOOK AT ALL MY PICTURES OF JESUS ON MY DESK! I'M MORE FAITHFUL THAN YOU!
I hate that with a passion.

Yes, I agree with you. That is just completely wrong the way some people try to show off how "religious" they are.

Crinklestein said:

Before joining the JW I was a Protestant. After leaving the JW I wouldn't consider myself a Protestant or anything else for that matter. I consider myself a Christian of no particular denomination.

Same with me. I consider myself a Christian of no particular denomination.

Crinklestein said:

I consider my faith and beliefs to be a private matter between me and God and I need no title to define it and no church to goto to validate my faith or to prove my faith to some equally sinful man. We're all in the same boat. I've had total strangers and friends come up to me and ask me if I have been saved or if I believe in Jesus Christ as my Personal savior and I tell them the same thing every time..."My belifes and my relationship with God is a PERSONAL relationship and doesn't involve anyone else. If He's my PERSONAL savior then, by its very definition, it's PERSONAL and none of your business. Evaluate yourself before you start worrying about me."

Yes, your relationship with Jesus is between you and Jesus.

Crinklestein said:

You made some good points there, friend. Just make sure that you aren't leaping out of the frying pan and into the fire. What I mean by that is just make sure that you don't get yourself stuck into a similar mindset of "their is only one way and mine is right" and don't get yourself stuck into another cult (not saying that you have or anything like that). It's taken my experience as a witness to show me that when your faith is regulated by another man YOU ARE SCREWED because that man is usually alot more sinful than you are.

Thank You so much for your comments Crinklestein!

Yes, I agree, it is NEVER going to help a person if he is following a sinful human being instead of Jesus Christ. That will only end in disaster.

I try to be very open minded about things. The one thing that I believe in absolutely is Jesus Christ who is God and His Sacrifice and Resurrection.

I can guarantee that I will never, ever, ever, ever join another cult as long as I live.

Crinklestein said:

Keep up the good posts!

Thank You!!! I will try my best to continue posting everyday on JWD.
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Heianderen said:

I'm happy that you have found a way of life that satisface you, give meaning to your life, and help you to resolve your emotional problems.

Thank You!

Heianderen said:

Personally, I do not agree with your believes and don't think than the reasons you give for beliving in the bible are plausible, but I respect your opinion.

And I respect your opinions and beliefs 100% also.

However, can I ask you a favor? Would you mind pointing out the reasons why you don't think those reasons were plausible?

Heianderen said:

I believe that althought we are very sure of our own believes and opinions, we should respect thouse that don´t belive the same, I think we can express freely why we don't believe this and that and why we believe this and that, we must develope humilty, because even the most congent reasoning can be false.

I agree 100%.

Heianderen said:

I believe that the roots of the ethics and morals lay in the concept of equality of all human beings (this of course is an utopia, an idelization, abstract concept) but we all ought to strive to live according this idea, making the world a safer warmer place.

Yes, that is very true.

Heianderen said:

Therefore, problems begins when we belive we are better than others, that our opinions/believes are absolutly true, without discusion, specially when this believes includes elitistic views (some examples, jews "the choosen people", christians, and muslims adopted this view also) and the equality disappears, the gates of expoliation and explotation are open.

Believe me, I am not better than ANYONE on Earth. Period. I am a sinner. I absolutely deserve to go to Hell. That is why I am eternally grateful to God for saving me.

All I am is a humble slave of Jesus Christ, and I try to do my humble part to help other people to see the truth about the Watchtower Society and to come to know the truth about Jesus Christ.

I believe that ALL humans are created equal. ALL humans regardless of their religious beliefs deserve to be treated with respect, kindness, and love. ALL humans regardless of their religious beliefs, and regardless of where they live on Earth, and regardless of their race or their sex, deserve to have ALL of the RIGHTS of the United States Constitution.

Heianderen said:

Please excuse me poor english.

No problem about the English.

Heianderen said:

But the idea that I want to tell you is that you should be aware of not falling in the same intoletant actitude of the WBT.

Thank You so much for your comments. Yes, I agree, I need to be very careful, and everyone should be very careful, not to develop the same intolerant attitudes as the Watchtower Society.
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DJ said:

It's always nice to hear from you. IMO you are a wonderful asset to this board and a wealth of info for those who need info about the false teachings of the wt. I am glad that you are here. I appreciate your testimony.

Thank You so very much for your kind, nice words, DJ. I give all credit to my Lord Jesus Christ. It is always wonderful to hear from you as well. I am very happy that you are here too.

DJ said:

I disagree with those who feel that you are thinking of yourself as superior.........quite the contrary! The most misunderstood concept of Christianity is that folks tend to think it is about the Christian instead of being about Christ and what his sacrifice has done for us! It is most humbling to become a Christian. It is not about us.........but HIM!

So very true.

Jesus Christ has done everything -- He has done it all -- He died so that we could live. We absolutely did not deserve to be Saved, but God loved us so much that He died for us.

DJ said:

I remember feeling similar to those who posted above. They've taken offense to the rock and stumbled. It is the simplicity of Christ that we must remember. Man complicates his message and burdens the masses. Jesus did no such thing! He said to Come to Him. I remember the fist time that I read Matthew 11:28. I was horrified to do as it said because of man's false teachings. I was so full of fear. I couldn't fathom the idea of 'going to Christ'.......after all.......that would have required me to actually talk to HIM!!! We were taught Not to pray to angels and IF Jesus was Michael then how could I do this? Finally, a leap of faith measured out for me was unfolded. I will never look back nor will I ever turn to man for understanding and certainly not for salvation. We've been thru much but He is stronger.

I had a similar experience. I had been taught for 18+ years to NEVER ever pray TO Jesus Christ, or worship Jesus Christ. At almost every JW Meeting, the JW's constantly downgrade Jesus, and dishonor Jesus, and claim that Jesus does not deserve our worship or prayers.

When I learned the truth that Jesus was God, it was still very hard to come to Jesus in prayer -- I was still afraid that I was sinning. But then, it was wonderful -- I prayed my heart out to Jesus, and I have been praying to Jesus and The Father everyday since July 2001 and my outlook on life has changed completely.

Here is a Thread I posted about Praying to Jesus Christ: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/44787/1.ashx

DJ said:

Keep the faith, Undis! We may have been once bitten but not twice shy. Love to you Dj

Thank You Very Much for your very kind words, may you also keep the faith! I send my Christian love to you in Christ, DJ! May the Lord continue to bless you! :-)
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FlowerPower said:

I believe you posted under the wrong heading, next time you want to prostylize or spout your religious fanaticism do it under the "Bible Research and Study Articles" or one of those type of headings. I take exception that you posted under "Friends"!!! I don't mean any disrespect but that is how I feel about that type of religionism!! FP

Well, you certainly are entitled to your own opinions, however, right on the Home Page of this Website, it states that the "Friends" Category was made so that people can "Discuss anything JW related and meet new friends".

My Thread most certainly is "JW related", and I hope to meet some new friends.

I intentionally posted this Thread in the "Friends" Category because more people look at the Threads in the "Friends" Category than anywhere else on the Website.

If Simon requests that I stop posting these type of Threads in the "Friends" Category then I will definitely stop doing so.

I thought I would add a few comments about your post:

If the United States Constitution was written by people with your attitude, I do not believe we have Freedom of Religion or Freedom of Expression in this Country.

I don't mean any disrespect but that is how I feel about that type of intolerant attitude.

If someone posted their Muslim beliefs, or their Jewish beliefs, or their Pagan beliefs, or their Atheist beliefs in the "Friends" Category, I would not criticize them for doing so.
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Unclepenn1 said:

Hey Undisfellowhipped, thank you for your testimony. The irony is that people are scolding and ridiculing you for practicing the exact same system of belief as they do. You see, Gita jumped on your back and called you a fanatic for believing that there is only one path to truth (Jesus/Christianity) and then purports her/his only path which is universalism, and by doing so, excludes your 'path'. It is classic self refutation. Saying 'Dont be so narrow by saying there is only one way', and then giving you a 'one way' option (her/his way). 'All roads lead to God, unless you think that only one does, then yours doesnt'. Doesnt make a wee bit of sense. I appreciate your testimony, and that you have found peace with God. Warm regards, Penn

Thank You so much for your comments Penn! And I think your comments make a lot of sense and are very accurate!
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Joker10 said:

What do you have to say about when Jesus said to Satan "It is only your god Jehovah that you must worship"?

Very good question!

As Gordy correctly pointed out, only the Watchtower's Bible "Translation" uses the word "Jehovah" in that Verse.

The Watchtower Society has inserted the word "Jehovah" several times in the New Testament where it never was in the original Greek text.

The purpose of that is to make it appear that only Jehovah receives worship and prayers to the exclusion of Jesus.

Actually though, I do not mind it when the Watchtower adds the word "Jehovah" when the New Testament is quoting from the Old Testament, such as the Verse you asked about.

Now, on to your question.

I agree absolutely that we are only supposed to worship Jehovah [Yahweh] the Almighty God.

Based on what I have read in the Bible, I believe that The Father is Jehovah, and The Son is Jehovah, and The Holy Spirit is Jehovah -- not three Gods, but Three Separate Persons in Unity as ONE God.

The Bible shows very clearly (well, it is not so clear in the New World Translation) that Jesus Christ deserves our worship, praise, glory, and honor equally with The Father, as I will show here, using New World Translation Verses first, then other Translations as well:

John 5:21-23 (New World Translation):

For just as the Father raises the dead up and makes them alive, so the Son also makes those alive whom he wants to. For the Father judges no one at all, but he has committed all the judging to the Son, in order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

Revelation 5:8-14 (New World Translation):

And when he took the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp and golden bowls that were full of incense, and the [incense] means the prayers of the holy ones. And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.” And I saw, and I heard a voice of many angels around the throne and the living creatures and the elders, and the number of them was myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice: “The Lamb that was slaughtered is worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing.” And every creature that is in heaven and on earth and underneath the earth and on the sea, and all the things in them, I heard saying: “To the One sitting on the throne and to the Lamb be the blessing and the honor and the glory and the might forever and ever.” And the four living creatures went saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped.

Philippians 2:10-11 (New World Translation):

so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground, and every tongue should openly acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

Matthew 14:33 (New King James Version):

Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."

Matthew 28:9 (New King James Version):

And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

John 9:38 (New King James Version):

Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.

Hebrews 1:6 (New King James Version):

But when He [The Father] again brings the Firstborn [The Son] into the world, He says: "Let all the angels of God worship Him."

Joshua 5:13 through 6:2:

And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted his eyes and looked, and behold, a Man stood opposite him with His sword drawn in His hand. And Joshua went to Him and said to Him, "Are You for us or for our adversaries?" So He said, "No, but as Commander of the Army of Jehovah I have now come." And Joshua fell on his face to the Earth and worshiped, and said to Him, "What does my Lord say to His servant?" Then the Commander of Jehovah's Army said to Joshua, "Take your sandal off your foot, for the place where you stand is holy." And Joshua did so. Now Jericho was securely shut up because of the children of Israel; none went out, and none came in. And Jehovah said to Joshua: "See! I have given Jericho into your hand, its king, and the mighty men of valor.

Also, I thought I would post some Scriptures which show that humans are not supposed to worship anyone or anything other than God Almighty, not even holy angels:

Isaiah 42:8: "I am Jehovah; that is My Name! I will not give My glory to anyone else. ...

Isaiah 48:11: ...I [Jehovah] will not give My glory to another.

Colossians 2:18: Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshipping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind

Revelation 19:10: I [John] fell down before his feet to worship him [the angel]. He said to me, "Look! Don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers who hold the testimony of Jesus. Worship God, for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy."

Revelation 22:8: Now I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. When I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who had shown me these things.
Revelation 22:9: He said to me, "Make sure that you don't do it! I am a fellow bondservant with you and with your brothers, the Prophets, and with those who keep the Words of this Book. Worship God."

So, in the final analysis, Jehovah says that He will not share His glory or His worship with anyone else, not even angels. But then The Father commands everyone to honor and worship The Son equally with Himself. Therefore, I conclude that The Father and The Son are God Almighty -- Jehovah.
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Crinklestein said:

Unclepenn, I guess he meant that he believes in universalism, that all roads lead to God. All roads but Undishfellowship's. And all roads as long as he agrees with them. I think alot of people here have trouble getting the ONE WAY methodology out of their heads after leaving the JWs. They still have that mentality that what they think is the only way and when someone else says what they believe they get ridiculed. Folks! You are not JW's anymore. Get rid of your elitist "I'm right and your wrong" attitude. It seems that the only thing that has changed since some of you left is just some of your beliefs. But the way that you hold those beliefs hasn't changed and I think that's the most important thing that NEEDS to change.

AMEN to that!
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LoverOfTruth said:

Wow! you have a lot to say and I certainly understand. You have been given the strength necessary to break free and that took a lot of courage!

I would recommend you now sit (figuratively speaking) in the father's lap and allow him to hold you. Just be quiet for awhile. He loves you so very much! That's something most witnesses don't understand.

Don't forget to pray for those still in the darkness.

Thank You very much for your kind words and very good advice LoverOfTruth! I definitely do need to pray for people more than I have been recently.

Thank all of you for your comments and may the Lord Jesus Christ bless you with peace and happiness! :-)

FlowerPower

Undisfellowshipped, I have to say that the religionism that you spout is just another version of what Jehovah's Witnesses spout with a little twist. You mention what one must do in order to get to heaven. So I imagine that anyone who doesn't meet your criteria would be exempt from heaven. You mentioned only TRUE christians are accepted by "god" (a lot of people believe that they are TRUE christians whether you think they meet the bill or not), does'nt it make you the intolerent one who makes such determinations, and don't say that they are "god's" standards not yours that must be met ... that's a crock. God lets me live and breath and do everything else I do all day, same as you, sin included. For you to judge anyone else as to whether they are TRUE christians or not is the same as JW's saying who is "worldly" and who is not. I totally agree with what Gitasatsangha posted, "a fanatic, is a fanatic, is a fanatic." FP

UnDisfellowshipped

FlowerPower said:

Undisfellowshipped, I have to say that the religionism that you spout is just another version of what Jehovah's Witnesses spout with a little twist. You mention what one must do in order to get to heaven. So I imagine that anyone who doesn't meet your criteria would be exempt from heaven. You mentioned only TRUE christians are accepted by "god" (a lot of people believe that they are TRUE christians whether you think they meet the bill or not), does'nt it make you the intolerent one who makes such determinations, and don't say that they are "god's" standards not yours that must be met ... that's a crock. God lets me live and breath and do everything else I do all day, same as you, sin included. For you to judge anyone else as to whether they are TRUE christians or not is the same as JW's saying who is "worldly" and who is not. I totally agree with what Gitasatsangha posted, "a fanatic, is a fanatic, is a fanatic." FP

You made a huge mistake when you said that "anyone who doesn't meet your criteria would be exempt from heaven". And then you made another big mistake when you said "don't say that they are "god's" standards not yours that must be met ... that's a crock". God's standards are extremely clear for everyone, including you to read, in His Word, the Holy Scriptures: Acts 16:30-31: ... "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household." John 3:16: For God loved the world so much, that He gave His Only-Begotten Son, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life. John 3:18: He who believes in Him [Jesus Christ] is not judged. He who doesn't believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the Name of the Only-Begotten Son of God. If everyone who believes in the different versions of "Jesus Christ" will be saved, then why did Jesus say the following? Matthew 24:23-26: "Then if any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or, 'There,' don't believe it. For there will arise false christs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect. "Behold, I have told you beforehand. If therefore they tell you, 'Behold, he is in the wilderness,' don't go out; 'Behold, he is in the inner chambers,' don't believe it.

LittleToe

Gita / Francois:

You know (I hope) that I have nothing but respect for you both, but why the intolerance?

All they guy did was post his personal testimony, along with a statement of belief.
His posting history has been consistently Christian, so there's been no deception.
He didn't get "in your face" - you put him there by clicking on the thread.

In peace and love...
LLL

UnDisfellowshipped

Merry Christmas to everyone!

My Testimony

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