If one doesn’t find any problem with the Bible, he wouldn’t also doubt the organization he is associating with.

by Ireneus 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    Bible is flooded with blood. God is depicted as spilling blood for no reason. To mention a few:

    1. He asked his friend to murder his only begotten son (Genesis 22:2) as though there is no other way to test one’s love
    2. He instigated Satan against another friend Job which resulted in calamity after calamity to him including the death of his children (Job 1:8, 9, 19),
    3. He instigated his own people to kill everyone except young virgins (Numbers 31:17, 18) and to do many other killings
    4. Finally He asked his only begotten son to be killed against his will (Luke 22:42) which served no purpose at all (look at the religious leaders who are shamelessly caught in acts such as pedophile, sex-abuse ...etc)

    Prima facie, such accounts cannot originate from God who made abundant variety of provisions for life’s enjoyment proving himself to be symbol of unconditional love. If one doesn’t doubt the authenticity of such accounts (James 3:11; 1 Thess 5:21), he would find everything is ok with the organization (such as JWs) he is associating with.

  • cofty
    cofty
    God who made abundant variety of provisions for life’s enjoyment proving himself to be symbol of unconditional love.

    Natural evil proves otherwise.

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    cofty,

    Though natural evil is not the subject, since you brought it, I will make my comments:

    We all know that darkness glorifies the light. Without darkness, light makes no sense. Good has no meaning unless its opposite evil exists. Saying there is no God because there is suffering is like saying there is no Government in a country because there is suffering in prisons. Among numerous welfare activities Government undertakes such as parks, schools, hospitals, highways, bridges, various utility services ….etc. prison is just one built to protect the majority from the few anti-socials. Similarly, God too has done on earth many fine-tuning acts which make life and its enjoyment possible, all of which work by certain laws. Look at the wonderful mechanism called seeds. Each of all the species on earth (about 8.7 million) reproduces only its own kind, which shows how perfectly laws are working. Suffering and well-being are like two sides of a coin because well-being results when laws are observed and suffering results when laws are violated, thus both are the works of same laws. For example, in skillful cooking, delicious dishes are produced which means some laws are perfectly observed. In careless cooking, what you cook is burned, or food item being turned black into carbon, which again means some laws are at work. [Living things contain the element carbon; hence, anything that was once alive that you cook and subsequently burn, will turn black and the charred material will definitely contain the element carbon]. In reality, every happening is neutral as everything is a flow of events with one thing leading to the other under the influence of many factors and forces. “In nature there are neither rewards nor punishments; there are consequences.” (Robert Green Ingersoll, American lawyer)

    Pointing to things such as carnivorous animals one can say natural evil exist. If humans can take care of certain animals such as dogs, cats … it shows we can also feed carnivorous animals too (if their hunger is taken care of, they won’t prey on other species). This shows somewhere in the time, humans got diverted onto self-centric activities leaving many important works behind uncared for. If we say, natural evil exists, hence there is no God, then the same reason would equally apply to its opposite—natural good exists hence God exists. Life and its support systems are no easy task to come by themselves. There are puzzles such as life coming from non-life, abiogenesis….etc. We can give explanations to them. Yet if such explanations were correct, it could be something that happens on as many as 10–25% of the possible worlds, which means up to 20 billion planets in our galaxy could have life on them (Including — past or present — others in our own Solar System, like Mars, Europa, Titan) with no lab-and-scientists facilities being available there. Yet we have all those facilities—lab, scientists, hard-core atheists with intense desire to see life coming from non-life. Still, thus far, we’ve been unable to create life from non-life in the lab.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    I agree with the Thread title, I have found it extremely difficult, well impossible, to get certain believers , mainly JW's, but recently a member of the SDA's, to actually take in to their minds the facts about the Bible that prove it is merely a work of men.

    Their minds are surrounded by bulwarks of ignorance off which the facts bounce, never to penetrate.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Ireaneus your ignorance of the natural world is astounding.

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    cofty,

    I am aware of the atheists’ position that if a human being did the kinds of things that God does (caused natural evils such as earthquakes, tsunamis, epidemics, cancer, inborn disabilities etc.), then that person would be morally evil. If it would be wrong for a human being to do these things, why are they not wrong for God?

    I purposefully avoided answering this because answer will not be accepted by evolutionists who do not believe there was a paradise (devoid of natural evils) on earth to start with which was lost for some reason. One of the reasons why it was lost was killing other species to eat their flesh. Now this has to have its consequence. If one enjoys eating non-vegetarian food, he is also a party in the worldwide killing field where innocent animals are slaughtered against the best-known principle found in the Bible: “killing a bull is equal to killing a man.” (Isaiah 66:3) There is another form of killing, fondly called abortion, which is killing of the innocent and helpless life as it blossoms in the womb. Condemning this act Pope Francis recently compared the procedure to “hiring a hitman to resolve a problem.” (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/oct/10/pope-francis-compares-abortion-hiring-hitman) Killing means giving untimely death to someone, and is an act of sowing which has to have its reaping soon or later, and nature has various ways to cause untimely death. Whether it is identical death to all matters not because whether one dies this week or next week, or in 10 minutes or 10 years, it is infinitely small amounts of time in view of the immortality of soul [even according to some scientists such as Wernher von Braun who wrote: “I believe in an immortal soul. Science has proved that nothing disintegrates into nothingness. Life and soul, therefore, cannot disintegrate into nothingness, and so are immortal. Everything science has taught me and continues to teach me-strengthens my belief in the continuity of our spiritual existence after death. Nothing disappears without a trace.” ] and in view of the big scheme of things. Hence in principle, there is no basis for complaining on the nature and timing of death one receives. It is typical of what happens to one's body. What happens to the body is the reflection of his inner world. Similarly, what earth returns is the reflection of inner world of individuals collective.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Now you are just making it worse. The more you talk the more ridiculous your superstitions become.

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    I have no problem with the Bible.

    In fact, I'm a big fan of fantasy, horror, and graphic violence.

    :smirk:

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    I, LIKE VIDIOT, ALSO FIND NO PROBLEM WITH MYTHOLOGY. I LOVED GREEK AND EGYPTIAN IN SCHOOL. AND HEBREW/JEWISH MYTHOLOGY IN THE BIBLE!

    just saying!

  • Ireneus
    Ireneus

    Cofty,

    I am only using your own logic. If evolutionists can say that nature is capable of producing the wonderful drama of life from non-living matter through 8.7 million species to homo-sapiens with wonders such as seeds and all the provisions for life's enjoyment in many varieties and abundance, the same nature is capable of returning what each human being deserves--blessings to some and maledictions to others by way of earthquakes, tsunamis, inborn disabilities ...etc. Thus it is neither "ridiculous nor superstitious."

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