The real victims of "peace" (page 3)

LB

I presume that once the US has removed the torturers from Iraq, it will start on the above list?

Sure, why not, well as long as we have a few bombs left over.

hillary_step

Sure, why not, well as long as we have a few bombs left over.

lol....LB, well you better make sure that they have one or two left over to dispatch into the atmosphere the School Of The Americas who are made up of US Military who train South American torturers, and then perhaps the US military personel involved as we speak in training the Indonesian Kopassus in the delights of torture. This after craftily sidestepping the US Congress decision to ban Indonesia from receiving such terrorist training.

Oh, what a tangled web they weave.....

Best regards - HS

SloBoy

Thanks H.S. for an enlightening post......not for a minute have I believed the White House spin on the "human rights" issue. Madison Ave. execs can take a real lesson in salesmanship from this administration.

SloBoy

BTW.......savvy officials throughout the world are very concerned about this "pre-emptive war" mentality. Setting the precedent of " since I am the badest dude around, I know whats best for y'all" can have some very negative consequences. In a perfect world, where one hopes the powerful are morally guided, such a policy would work. Imagine how this will play out even in our own streets when every other "dude" firmly believes he has the moral high-ground and "pre-emptively" acts as judge, jury, and executioner.

DakotaRed

Claiming he bares sole responsibility is an 'easy' and naive belief. Some important questions surely are:
Who put him there?
Who kept him there?
Who gave him the means to do what he did?

*IF* it was the US, France, Germany, Britain, Russia, China, et. al. who helped him get all these weapons, then who better than all of them to take them away now that he has misused, or should I say, wrecklessly used them? Does the notion that all of us empowered him long ago give him carte blanche to keep them today and continue using them and mistreating his citizens?

If you give your son a sling shot and he breaks the neighbors windows, yes, you may have to pay for it, but ultimately, he bore responsibility for shooting the window. He should have to pay for the damage, one way or the other.

hillary_step

If you give your son a sling shot and he breaks the neighbors windows, yes, you may have to pay for it, but ultimately, he bore responsibility for shooting the window. He should have to pay for the damage, one way or the other

If you knew that your son was a irresponsible, murderous sociopath with a penchant for large mustache's perhaps you might not have given him the sling-shot in the first place. Unless of course you actually wanted him to use it to break his neighbours window and trained him to do so.....

Best regards - HS

Seven

I presume that once the US has removed the torturers from Iraq, it will start on the above list?

YES!! Now you're talking!! The US and world's leaders can actually DO something aside from their worthless attempts at impressing each other with their shallow words and meaningless speeches which are about as useful as tits on a nun.

All are punished-that's the ticket. Instead of talking about it for the next twenty years, let's see some action. No country's leadership past or present should be exempt. I fully support Amnesty International's Trade in Terror and International Justice campaigns. Let the chips fall where they may.

Trade in Terror: Military, Security and Police transfers

Amnesty International's campaigning focuses on some of the gravest human rights abuses such as torture, "disappearance" and political killings. There is clear evidence that some transfers of military, security and police (MSP) goods or services to countries where human rights are abused can aid or exacerbate such abuses. This is why strict controls and vigilant monitoring are needed to ensure that such transfers do not occur.

International Justice

The twentieth century was perhaps the bloodiest in history. Millions of people were victims of genocide, crimes against humanity, war crimes, torture, extrajudicial executions and "disappearances." These crimes were committed throughout the world during international and civil wars and in conditions of "peace."

expatbrit

Hello again Hillary:

You mentioned:

Torture of its citizens, often on a massive scale is taking place in Iraq, Libya, Syria, Iran, Israel, Turkey, Columbia, Ethiopia, China, Tibet, Burma, North Korea, Indonesia, Peru, many African states and many other countries.

Yes it has. And to answer your question, I hope that the US (and hopefully the West) does start in on this very long list. It's about time. Enough is enough.

To try and use this as a point against the removal of Saddam isn't logical though. Just because all oppressive dictators can't immediately be removed means none of them should be? By that logic, just because I can't donate to all charities, I shouldn't donate to any of them.

Nor are dishonourable and downright wrong actions of the past a reason to avoid action now. If anything, the responsibility is greater to act to correct those mistakes now, and as much as possible, make amends for them.

Quite why dictators have a penchant for large mustaches is a mystery, though surely this can be used as a sort of early warning system.

Simon said:

Of course I am not supporting Saddam or his regime but anyone who think the USA s going to war because of the human rights abuses is seriously mistaken I think. I believe all the things that have been described were known about before the last war ... why not take him out then? Why support him at all before this?!

No the US is not going to war just because of human rights abuses. I don't have that level of faith in them! Yet I don't think they are going to war just for oil either (the economics don't support it, for one thing). I wish Saddam had been taken out in the last Gulf War, or even better had not been installed in the first place. Hindsight is 20/20. But again, that is no excuse for not dealing with him now.

Seven:

Couldn't agree with you more. Diplomacy has a valuable place. But the trouble with diplomacy is that it requires at least a minute shred of willingness to compromise and act honourably on both sides. The Iraqi regime has neither. That is why diplomacy has failed miserably for 12 years, and would have failed for another 12 if the French had got their way. I've read Amnesty reports, and UNICEF, and WHO. None of them are renowned for being supporters of the US government. All of them show Saddam and his regime to be brutal mass murderers, and the sanctions to have been a human disaster (and a very valuable propaganda tool for Saddam).

Enough is enough.

Expatbrit

Double Edge

I think those responsible should be brought to justice .. .all those responsible (right to the top). That includes the presidents, the oild chiefs, the arms dealers.

well, I think we should take this back all the way to the start... let's see, who mapped out modern day Iraq... WINSTON CHURCHILL... oh wait, he's dead... never mind.

expatbrit

Winston Churchill gassed the kurds too. Strange old thing, morality.

Expatbrit

The real victims of "peace"

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