Shredded Men

Francois

I don't know if this is a "legal" post, but here it is:

See men shredded, then say you don't back war
By Ann Clwyd

“There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Hussein’s youngest son] personally supervise these murders.”

This is one of the many witness statements that were taken by researchers from Indict — the organisation I chair — to provide evidence for legal cases against specific Iraqi individuals for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. This account was taken in the past two weeks.

Another witness told us about practices of the security services towards women: “Women were suspended by their hair as their families watched; men were forced to watch as their wives were raped . . . women were suspended by their legs while they were menstruating until their periods were over, a procedure designed to cause humiliation.”

The accounts Indict has heard over the past six years are disgusting and horrifying. Our task is not merely passively to record what we are told but to challenge it as well, so that the evidence we produce is of the highest quality. All witnesses swear that their statements are true and sign them.

For these humanitarian reasons alone, it is essential to liberate the people of Iraq from the regime of Saddam. The 17 UN resolutions passed since 1991 on Iraq include Resolution 688, which calls for an end to repression of Iraqi civilians. It has been ignored. Torture, execution and ethnic-cleansing are everyday life in Saddam’s Iraq.

Were it not for the no-fly zones in the south and north of Iraq — which some people still claim are illegal — the Kurds and the Shia would no doubt still be attacked by Iraqi helicopter gunships.

For more than 20 years, senior Iraqi officials have committed genocide, war crimes and crimes against humanity. This list includes far more than the gassing of 5,000 in Halabja and other villages in 1988. It includes serial war crimes during the Iran-Iraq war; the genocidal Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds in 1987-88; the invasion of Kuwait and the killing of more than 1,000 Kuwaiti civilians; the violent suppression, which I witnessed, of the 1991 Kurdish uprising that led to 30,000 or more civilian deaths; the draining of the Southern Marshes during the 1990s, which ethnically cleansed thousands of Shias; and the summary executions of thousands of political opponents.

Many Iraqis wonder why the world applauded the military intervention that eventually rescued the Cambodians from Pol Pot and the Ugandans from Idi Amin when these took place without UN help. They ask why the world has ignored the crimes against them?

All these crimes have been recorded in detail by the UN, the US, Kuwaiti, British, Iranian and other Governments and groups such as Human Rights Watch, Amnesty and Indict. Yet the Security Council has failed to set up a war crimes tribunal on Iraq because of opposition from France, China and Russia. As a result, no Iraqi official has ever been indicted for some of the worst crimes of the 20th century. I have said incessantly that I would have preferred such a tribunal to war. But the time for offering Saddam incentives and more time is over.

I do not have a monopoly on wisdom or morality. But I know one thing. This evil, fascist regime must come to an end. With or without the help of the Security Council, and with or without the backing of the Labour Party in the House of Commons tonight.

The author is Labour MP for Cynon Valley.

Saddam is apparently capable of any atrocity. And it is being suggested that he will voluntarily disarm? We should give disarmament a chance (after 12 years of chance)? We should sit by and play Stanley Baldwin and Neville Chamberlin? I've tried to see that point of view, but I don't seem to be able to get my head that far up my ass.

francois

jws

So, we're going to invade Iraq over humanitarian concerns? Why not start with China or dozens of other countries that are way behind on basic human rights? While these things may be true (or maybe not), that's never really been a big concern for right-wingers before. When Amensty International or other liberal groups make these things known, they don't care. Now that these disturbing details can be used as a handy excuse to drum up propaganda for a war, they all come out. And next time you hear these sorts of things about some other country, it'll be dismissed as a bunch of bleeding-heart liberal garbage.

Remember, it was Donald Rumsfield as special envoy from Reagan who went to Iraq to get all chummy with him during the Iran-Iraq war. Back then his chemical warfare against the Kurds was known, but Rumsfield said nothing. The Reagan administration didn't care. So why do we care now?

Because it makes Saddam look like a bad guy. And that's how war propaganda manipulates people. Turn out every bad detail about the enemy, even though nobody cared before. It all makes the public hate them. Maybe after my JW days, I'm more aware of manipulation tactics.

Again, weapons inspectors have not found any WOMD. The administration has blown discoveries out of proportion. Solid evidence does not need exageration. Saddam may or may not have any WOMD. If he doesn't or doesn't have them anymore, then he cannot turn over what he does not have.

I don't know why we're really going to war. I know it isn't over humanitarian concerns and I've seen no convincing arguments that he has WOMD. Since the UN's "search-warrant" was deemed unacceptable, I guess we're going to storm in, where we will find WOMD whether they were there to begin with or not.

czarofmischief

Because China's big enough to scare us away...

Iraq can and will be dealt with. Huzzah!

CZAR

TR

jws,

So your reasons not to blow Iraq off the face of the earth are........

TR

JeffT

You do what you can. Saying that because we can't fix everything, we should fix nothing is a cop out. I think Iran and North Korea or going to be the next snake pits to get cleaned out. There are dissidents in Iran that we can support, actual war may not be necessary. NK will feel some heat soon.

Francois

"Why not start with China or dozens of other countries that are way behind on basic human rights?"

Sheesh! There's got to be one in every crowd.

Because China or dozens of other countries are not threatening the world with the release of small pox, anthrax, VX nerve agent, Sarin, and dispersion of dirty radioactive materials - in addition to grinding up people alive, gassing their own people with mustard gas, and other oh so cute activities. And these other countries have not to our knowledge developed special relationships with Osama bin Laden and his worldwide troupe of merry men dedicated to the proposition that the entire earth should be converted to Islam by main force.

Do you begin to get the point? Or do you want to continue to bleat the empty mouthings of the Hate America Left? Think man, THINK!

francois

Simon

Strange ... given this record then that the USA and UK should offer him complete and utter immunity from any prosecution for war crimes. What are we to make of that?

I agree that such 'demonising' of the enemy is often done while going to war although I do not doubt that he is a thoroughly unpleasant man.

Again though, who is worse? The person who kills 200 himself or someone who kills 200,000 by pressing a button or signing a piece of paper?

Why are so many of the regimes that do things like this backed by the very governments that are condemning Saddam?

Simon

Hey, I'd got an idea ... maybe America could demonstrate by example how to treat people.

So, for instance, it would not dream of denying people any legal rights whatsoever, torturing them or beating them to death in one of it's bases would it? It's soldiers would not be allowed to commit atrocities and woudl be given a clear message by prosecuting anyone who did?

Me and my crazy ideas ...

Francois

I don't pretend to know all that much about international politics. It seems to me that field responds to the crisis of the moment. The US for years supported the Shah and his dreaded SAVAK, supported Ferdinand Marcos in the Phillipines and Noreiga in Central America. We seem to have an awful record of supporting tyrants as long as the tyrants danced to American tunes. It is a sad and terrible commentary on our supposed dedication to freedom and liberty and other political ideals. I must note, however that the Shah, and others mentioned were not threatening the world with weapons of mass destruction.

I do know that in my heart of hearts I feel Saddam must go one way or another. I feel he is a madman, a megalomaniac who would push the red button if he had one, and will use what weapons of mass destruction he does have. Can you imagine what would happen if he dumped twenty thousand tons of live small pox virus into the Madagascar Current, The Gulf Stream, along the Great Barrier Reef or some other critical place like that? It would be a world wide health calamity of biblical proportions.

And look at that mysterious illness coming out of China right now, the one that produces almost instant pneumonia. God knows what that is and where it's going to take us. We don't even know what it is. We certainly don't need to be fighting off a world wide plague or plagues of small pox, anthrax, botulism and god knows what else. We need to be able to concentrate on the new threat.

Saddam must go. He is a madman. And it seems that there are people who think the disarmament idea will work. Why would anyone expect an irrational madmad to respond to reason and rationality when he's demonstrated that he's neither. He's the bad gunslinger come to town and by God it's time to call out Shane to take care of the bastard.

francois

crinklestein

Isn't it funny how, whenever anyone speaks up about something horrible that is happening elsewhere someone ALWAYS has to chime in and say something like, "Well it must be nice to be so perfect" and then on to list a bunch bad things someone somewhere else has done. As if this justifies what's going on.

If you complain about Joe Schmo then someone has to give you a list of bad things about YOU.

If you complain about Iraq someone has to give you a list of all the bad things the US has done.

Please people, grow up and accept the fact that Saddam just needs to freakin die.

Shredded Men

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