Some news in now, that 5 US soldiers were killed at a checkpoint when a motorist detonated a bomb killing himself and the soldiers.
ISP
How the US(and others) will LOSE
by ISP 49 Replies latest social current
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ISP
Looks like a fairly accurate assessment!
ISP
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Simon
Yes, it was so obvious I wonder at the "military intelligence" (an oxymoron) that didn't see this coming
All this talk about smashing the republican guard and yet there was no big battle. They melted away to fight the war on their terms.
I don't see any quick way out of this for the US. The choices are:
- Convince others to come in and pick up the pieces (eg. the UN). Loss of face after telling the world they didn't need them.
- Quit and go home and let Iraq sort itself out. Loss of face and possibility that a fundamentalist regime will take over (see Iran, 20-30 years ago)
- Stay and pay the price. Loss of public appetite for the conflict and the 'why are we there?' will possibly cause this. See Afghanistan for last half-done job.
I think a UN led peacekeeping force would be best but it needs:
- An Iraqi administration, not a US led one. They can sort themselves out given the chance.
- A UN led force, not a UN sticker put on the US military for political reasons.
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Gamaliel
ISP,
Excellent call, and from back in March, at that!
I haven't followed too many of the political threads lately but I have a feeling that the predictable issues surrounding the war have somewhat quieted the pro-war/invasion crowd on this forum. I need to stay out of these threads since Chomsky and Zinn et al have unduly influenced my political perceptions. (Once you've read their evidence it's hard see how things fit in any other way).
Gamaliel
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DakotaRed
When you have a willing media reporting only the worst of the news, seemingly desiring the US to fail at the task and allowing despots like Saddam to return and thrive again, what else should we expect? Too many people take only the view presented by mainstream left wing media and accept it as gospel. After so many years of being manipulated by the Watchtower, it surprises me to see so many again being manipulated and not realizing it.
Read only if you care to read the other side, presented by a Democrat. But be careful, you may be exposed to truth.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/9/22/172126.shtml
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Simon
Maybe all those US troops haven't really died, hellicopters haven't been shot down and attacks don't really happen then. Yes, I see the light ... Iraq is a really friendly, pro-US place and lots of Americans will be going there for their vacation.
I don't think so.
Blaming the media fvor reporting what happens is just like shooting the messenger for the bad news you don't want to accept.
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shamus
Simon,
I wouldn't even get into how the U.S. is going to get themselves out of this one... I am very glad to be Canadian at this point.
Yes, I saw this coming 500 miles away.. They're poor, they have nothing, OF COURSE THEY'RE GOING TO USE TERRORISM. It doesn't mean that I condone it in any way, but OMG... Bush sure walked into this one.
NO WMD.
No saddam...
No idea of what to do.
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JT
the usa had not real plans of how to get in , what to do once in and get out-
while the men on the ground are doing an excellent job, keep in mind this is Polictical- it matters not if they get 500 schools up an running, if soldiers die it will make the news- and part of being in a polictical position today is to calculate this stuff
while it would be wonderful for the polictial party in power to have praised heaped upon them all the time the REALITY is in todays instant news THAT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN
when you have 24/7 news coverage they are going to carry a story EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO MAKE IT UP that is a fact-
so yes he is damned if he does and damned if he don't, but he is the one who wanted the JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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DakotaRed
Blaming the media fvor reporting what happens is just like shooting the messenger for the bad news you don't want to accept.
Simon, you seem unable to grasp what I say. Do you crave only to hear the bad that happens in the world and not the other stuff too? If a messenger is only delivering one fourth of the message, maybe he needs shot.
I find it dishonest to paint this as going so horribly wrong when even Democrats visit the area and find it is going better than reported. But, when you are hellbent on seeing the effort fail, for whatever reason, the good news is unacceptable, isn't it? To accept that reports are biased and it is going better than thought now, one would have to admit to themselves that they were manipulated.
Ask yourself why the Rumsfeld memo received so much media attention recently, yet the memo leaked from the House Select Committee on Intelligence from Democrats using it to embarrass Bush receives little or no mention in mainstream media. Had a memo such as that been written by Republicans, there is no doubt it would be front page news.
Shoot the messenger? If he is unable to present the entire message, hell yes.
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Simon
Funny ... I didn't hear you criticising the media when the neocon pro-war lobby were getting favourable press and their propaganda was being peddled?
Do you think they suddenly changed sides or something? Or maybe it's simpler than that ... maybe they just report the news !
Maybe you could post some figures like the # of troops killed per month? Show us that the place is getting more peaceful as you say ... you know the kind of stuff. I'll even let you use 'official' figures if you like instead of real ones.