The Watchtower Society is confused over its “Seventy Years” and "Seven Times"

by Doug Mason 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    They know they are telling the truth because they have to keep correcting themselves:

    “Some have called Jehovah’s witnesses ‘false prophets’ because, in times past, they have viewed things a certain way and, later, have made a change through their official publications. Or, there may have been practices by some members in the organization that have been permitted to continue for a time for lack of knowledge as to how to handle these things, but later they have learned from God’s Word what his will is and have gone ahead and made the necessary corrections. False prophets do not correct themselves” (The Watchtower, June 1, 1967, page 331)

  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    "Some have called Jehovah’s witnesses ‘false prophets’ because, in times past, they have viewed things a certain way and, later, have made a change through their official publications."

    Um, no...

    ...they've called JWs "false prophets" because they made predictions that didn't come true.

    Slightly different.

  • bennyk
    bennyk

    The accounts in Josephus indicate that the temple (and Jerusalem) lay desolate FIFTY years (Apion 1:21), which fifty years were a part of the SEVENTY years of SERVITUDE (Antiquities 11:1:1). Apion 1:19 does NOT contradict this; it confirms that the fifty year's period of desolation occurred "during the interval of seventy years".

    The two excerpts from "Against Apion" indicate that the FIFTY years DESOLATION of the temple (and Jerusalem, one hastens to add) occured DURING the those same seventy years of servitude. ("during the interval of seventy years" -- NOT: FOR an interval of seventy years.) The seventy years of servitude began before the desolation of Jerusalem. Cf. Jer. 27:1,6-8 [note past perfect tense in vs 6] and 28:1,2,11 [where the servitude is already under way].

    [Incidentally, the 1971 Large-print NWT has the running heading "seventy years of servitude" rather than "captivity" or "desolation" (this from memory - the 1971 book is not before me).]

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun

    Bennyk, the first century Jewish view was that the land would lay desolate (for seventy years) after the destruction of Jerusalem. This one can see from their rendering of Dan.9:2 in the Masoretic Text and LXX Theodotian. The Hellenistic historian Berossus was right, whereas Josephus and the first century Jewish view was wrong. Jerusalem and surroundings were not desolate for seventy years. Here is an excerpt from one of my studies:

    Berossus vs. Josephus: Later writers quote Berossus as saying that after the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar extended Babylonian influence into all Syria-Palestine and, when returning to Babylon (in his accession year, 605 BCE), he took Jewish captives into exile, confirming that the 70 year period, as a period of servitude to Babylon, would begin in 605 BCE. That would mean that the 70-year period would expire in 535 BCE. Berossus also insists that Nebuchadnezzar took Jewish captives in his accession year. No cuneiform documents support this. Yet, the book of Daniel (1:1-3) mentions a minor deportation in the third year of Jehoiakim, which would correspond to the first year of Nebuchadnezzar (cf. Jer. 25:1; 46:2). As a minor deportation, it is not surprising that it does not feature on the list of Jeremiah 52:28-30.

    The Jewish historian Josephus respected Berossus. However, he states that in the year of the battle of Carchemish Nebuchadnezzar would conquer all of Syria-Palestine “excepting Judea,” thus contradicting Berossus and conflicting with the claim that 70 years of Jewish servitude began in Nebuchadnezzar’s accession year.—Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews X, vi, 1 [10.86]. Furthermore, Josephus elsewhere describes the destruction of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and then says that “all Judea and Jerusalem, and the temple, continued to be a desert for seventy years” (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews X, ix, 7 [10.184]). He pointedly states that “our city was desolate during the interval of seventy years, until the days of Cyrus” (Josephus, Against Apion I, 19 [1.132]). Here he shares the misconception of a later editor and/or redactor of the book of Daniel, “fulfilling the devastations of Jerusalem, [namely,] seventy years” (cf. Dan. 9:2). The same goes for the second-century (CE) writer Theophilus of Antioch who believed the 70 years would commence with the destruction of the temple after Zedekiah had reigned 11 years. As seen, Jeremiah applied the seventy years to the Judahites’ Babylonian servitude, and not to the desolation of the land.

    Dan. 9:2: In the OG we have oneidismos, meaning “reproach” (singular). See NETS. This is viewed as an error in the transmission: Jer. 25:9 and (I turn them) into a disgrace is read for MT and (I will turn them) into desolations. However, as seen, Dan. 9:2 is not drawn from Jer. 29:10, but Jer. 25:9-12. Here it could mean “reproach, disgrace, insult” (cf. Jer. 18:16; 19:8; Ezek. 5:13, 14). Specifically Jer. 25:9 and something to whistle at and places devastated to time indefinite.” See BHS footnote. KBLex, in accordance with the textcritical note suggests an emendation to (“as a disgrace”). See J. Lust, E. Eynikel & K. Hauspie (2003). A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint: Revised Edition. Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft: Stuttgart. According to secular chronology, Jerusalem did not lie desolate for seventy years, but her reproach and humiliation could have started with Jehoiakim’s three year servitude, completing Jeremiah’s seventy year cycle (2 Kings 24:1, 2; cf. Is. 25:9, 11).

  • Vidqun
    Vidqun
    By the way, the Society prefers the first century Jewish view. They are wrong.
  • Vidiot
    Vidiot

    Vidqun - "...the Society prefers the first century Jewish view..."

    Unsurprising... all fundamentalist Christian churches are huge fans of the Old Testament.

  • processor
    processor

    I once sent a question to the WTS about this issue. I asked, why do you say that the 'seven times' started after Gedaliah's murder and NOT after Zedekiah's capture? Gedeliah was not a king. The last king was Zedekiah. When (according to JW teaching) Jesus would come after the 'seven years', he would be the sucessor or Zedekiah, not of Gedaliah.

    In their first reply, they explained in detail why the '70 weeks' started at Gedaliah's death. I wrote to them again and explained again that my question was about the 'seven times', not the '70 weeks'.

    Then their reply was basically 'The Watchtower always said it like that, even more than hundred years ago'.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    processor,

    Fascinating. Well done.

    Doug

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