Ford E.V cars lost the company 1.3 billion in three months! I put 18 solar panels on my house but only get a small rebate $50 a quarter. Bill is $400. It will take years to get my thousands back. We shut down so many coal plants that power outages are now a thing.I don't think this is going to save the planet.
Stop the Electric car solar power brainwashing Lies!!
by Witness 007 27 Replies latest jw experiences
-
-
notsurewheretogo
Eh? I have solar panels and they generate enough electricity to run my house in the summer with no cost during the day whilst I work from home. Home solar panels are not about the rebate you get but how much you save by not taking from the grid.
I've saved a fortune the last 4 years as my house draws from solar rather than the grid. Excess is stored in batteries which the house uses at night.
My monthly bill for electricity in the summer is £15 a month.
-
WingCommander
If you still have an electric bill after putting up solar panels, you didn't do your homework, have the right contractor, or the right lease plan. A properly sized solar system with a few battery backups should have you TOTALLY off the grid, maybe even selling BACK to the power company if sized right.
If I were building a home today, ANY home, I'd have following incorporated into my building cost/loan:
1. Solar on a metal deck roof
2. High-efficiency mini-split systems for heating/cooling
3. High-efficiency water heater (or on-demand gas heaters like in Europe).
4. In colder regions, most insulation in roof and walls
5. In colder regions, fire place with an additional pellet/wood stove properly designed with deflectors and engines to circulate warm air
6. In colder regions, I'd have glycol floor warming in the slab, and also in the driveway. Separate loops for under pavered driveway, no concrete or asphalt.
7. The best Anderson coated windows for privacy and also to block UV and get the best U / R-values.
I'd do all of the above even I had a manufactured home (higher tier than trailer mobil home) built to my specs on slab. Hell, that's what I'd like. Built to my specs, in a facility where they specialize in building homes, and then delivered and placed on my slab. There's a lot here in Pennsylvania that do just this.
Yeah, I'm in architecture/MEP my entire life. :-)
-
Witness 007
Australia has dropped the kW price for new buyers so it's now not worth it here...people on old plans can make a profit with there excess electricity. Not many Aussiesare getting solar since they changed the rules....my uncle of the old plan made alot of money.
-
Jehalapeno
Solar companies in my neck of the woods are extremely predatory and use very shady JW-like sales practices.
On the topic of crap sales practices:
Never sign up for one of those "free water testing" things when you go to the hardware store.
These are usually run by water softener companies (Rainsoft in my area) and they come by your house and do a really hard sell. They require your spouse to be there too, only for the reason in that it's hard for you to refuse the sale if your spouse is convinced.
The companies that do sales tactics like this are usually overpriced compared to competitors, and it's really hard to say no.
I was promised that the "free water test" would only take 20 minutes and the sales guy ended up being here for 3 hours. I was way too polite and should've told him to STFU and leave. It was the most painful sales experience I ever had.
-
road to nowhere
Wing. Need better than average income. I question heat pumps working in -15⁰c Temps. Pellet stoves are carbon generators. In floor heat is way more pleasant solar panels do belong on roofs instead of using up farm land like locally.
Opinion:The real plan is small apartments, public transit, controlled mobility for all except the elite.
Conundrum: I decrie the Appalachian open pit coal mine rape, am afraid of dark tunnels, admire working men, like big machinery.
-
enoughisenough
I have seen articles where gas powered vehicles are being phased out by 2035 in California. This is a state that has rolling blackouts due to stress on the electric grid anyway....seems like a briliant move! It isn't uncommon to here stories about power outages and even predictions of the electric grid being shut down; yet the powers that be want everything on electricity ( get rid of your gas stoves! ) I think it is a control tactic. If everything you do depends upon have electric, if you don't comply with big brother, they just shut you down. There are videos online about solar power for homes-the pros and cons and it isn't all good news, so anyone considering solar powered homes should educate themselves. -
truthlover123
For all the hype about go more electric, Western Canada is receiving so much cold from the polar vortex, the grid can't handle to drain so they are asking people to cut back on usage! Cut Back? Some provinces are sending electricity to help with the problem. If this type of weather continues, people will be worrying about living , so many homeless in the streets even if warming areas set up.
Heat exchangers do not work in temps below -15, they need electricity or wood or gas to survive.
Now add ev's to this equation, the powers that be should have upgraded power supplies years before this great idea hatched.
-
DesirousOfChange
If you are forced into having electric powered everything, the government can force you into compliance on everything by shutting off your supply until you comply.
-
peacefulpete
I have more than average experience and training in this area. I have a degree as thermal technician and worked in the solar industry as a designer/installer.
It saddens me to see the industry both unjustifiably maligned and on the other hand over promising financial rewards.
To cut through the haze, first consider the location available for panels. If your roof is facing due south and you have a steep 12/12 pitch and no trees or buildings in the way, then awesome, skip to next step. If not, then your "window" needs to be assessed and quantified. Most installers are honest enough to not recommend a system if less than 80% of the potential can be harvested. The additional panels necessary rarely justify the results. Many tax credits also have a minimum window definition. You have this calculated by a professional (electronic devices purpose made for this).
OK, lets say you have a more typical pitch and roof faces 20 degrees away from due south, you now know that the panels will produce about 80% of their peak to begin with.
Next, simply take the size of the proposed grid tied system (system is sized by KW peak output of sum of panels). Let's say you have room and budget for a 6KW system (this is average rooftop size).
So take 6(KW) times .80 (your window) times that by the average annual peak hours equivalent of sun per day for your area (available online in my area it is 4hrs) and then times that by .7 if you live in snow country, .8 if not (average losses from snow/dirt/degradation combined). Take that and multiply the number of days in 20 years (7300) that result is the estimated KWH of production reasonably expected in 20 years. Times that by what your USAGE rate is per/kwh. (average in U.S. is .15/kwh. Assume increases in that rate over those 20 years (inflation) so add about 10%. So in my example use a rate of $0.18/kwh to get a reasonably good idea of what to expect in savings.
6 x .8 x 4hrs =19.2 kwh/day. Times that by incidental losses (I get fair amount of snow) 19.2KWH x .7=13.44 KWH/day. Times that by the average lifespan of the panels of 20 years (7300 days). 13.44 x7300=98,112 KWH/20 years. Times that by your inflation adjusted usage rate. 98,112 x .18= $17,660. So in 20 years you could reasonably expect around $17,660 production of electricity in my area.
Unfortunately, that is not the end of it. Typically, peak output is during midday, but peak usage may or not coincide with your production. This then requires we know what the net metering rates are in your specific area. In my area each power company sets its own policy. When you are producing more than your demand (e.g. no one is home, ac is off) the power goes to the grid, and this is recorded on a bidirectional meter. One company pays more for power than they change, another pays less. Many power companies actually want to have residential production as it lowers their need to meet peak demand, usually during the day for industry. Other companies want to discourage residential solar/wind and so keep usage rates low while raising service charges. Unless you want to spend buckets of money with an off-grid system (add $20-30,000 battery storage), you will be still receiving a bill for service charges, even if you meet all your electrical needs with your system. That is why we only used the usage rate for a meaningful calculation of the savings. Conveniently my power company pays about the same as it charges, consult your provider.
Then there is the matter of the inverter. Panels are likely to last 20 years. On average inverters last about 10 years, and on a 6KW system they will cost about $2500-3000 installed. Warrantees are usually expired by then so you will be paying for it. So subtract that from the $17,660. (17,660-3000=$14,660) The average (and they vary a lot by region) cost per KW rooftop is about $3. Your cost to install a 6KW rooftop system is therefore about $18,000. Ground mount system adds about 20% ($21,600).
Soooooo....In short, an average homeowner living in snow country can expect a solar system to produce enough to almost pay for the system over 20 years. This is where tax credits and incentives come into play. Whatever the incentives are, they are pretty much your profit/savings. In the US the Federal tax credit is now 30% which is the highest it's ever been. There may be some state and other incentives as well but they rarely add up to more than a thousand. So in our example, the incentives might be around $6000 (18,000x.3=5,400 + local/state=6,000). Leaving you with a $12,000 cost to install the 6KW rooftop system for a net advantage of about $2600.
The reasons for promoting solar is that, all said, the environmental impacts are less than the average environmental impacts of large scale production of electricity. If your power provider is getting their power from coal especially. If your grid power was produced with solar/wind and nuclear, there is basically no advantage environmentally to residential power and the financial benefits are realistically not that much.