The Date for the Memorial is WRONG this year!

by Kelley959 48 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Beth Sarim

  If the Borg is wrong on the memorial date,,,looks like they are,,, how many other things are they screwing up?

  Blood doctrine perhaps?

  🙄
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  joey jojo

  A few online sources say Passover is calculated 14 days from the new moon closest to the equinox, not after it. Some others say it's the first full moon after the equinox- which is almost the same thing.

  The closest new moon to the march equinox is March 10. So 14 days from then is March 24.
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  Anony Mous

  @Kerry: yes. My point is that JW say that the lord supper happens on Nisan 14, not his death. As I pointed out, from Nisan 14-16 no mass (meeting) or communion (passing/partaking of bread/wine) should take place.
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  KerryHuish

  @Anony Mous

  I respectfully disagree.

  On the evening of Nisan 14 Jesus celebrated the Passover and his last meal with his disciples.

  Jesus was then betrayed and killed on the following day, which was still Nisan 14, as the Jewish day ran from sunset to sunset.

  Nisan 14, the day Jesus died, was a day of preparation for Nisan 15, which was always regarded as a Sabbath, a complete rest, no matter what day it fell.

  (On this particular occasion, Nisan 15 coincided with the weekly Sabbath, which began Friday at sunset and ran until to Saturday's sunset - which made this particular Sabbath a High Day or Great Sabbath)

  ‭‭(John 19:31) The Jews therefore, because it was the Preparation, that the bodies should not remain on the cross upon the sabbath (for the day of that sabbath was a high day), asked of Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

  For Jesus to have died on the day of preparation for this Sabbath, means he died on Friday, before sundown, before Nisan 15 and the Sabbath came into effect.
  

  His final meal was on the evening that preceded this event, which was Nisan 14 which began at sunset on Thursday and ran until sunset on Friday - where Nisan 15 kicked in and the Great Sabbath began.

  Out of curiosity, what day and meal are you saying should be remembered?

  Kind Regards
  

  Kerry Huish
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  Anony Mous

  @Kerry: read my previous post on that subject in this thread as to why it is impossible for all that to have transpired in less than 24 hours. The synoptic gospels all record his death on Nisan 15 as a result of the statement that the Last Supper is a Passover meal which is obviously then entering the Sabbath as you point out. The Sanhedrin requires 2 days for a capital punishment to be considered, you have at least 2 nights recorded in the gospels. Only John recorded Nisan 14 as his day of death.

  Early Christians subsequently understood the Last Supper to be on a Thursday in order not to have the timeline conflict.

  Sir Colin Humphrey which has a book on the subject and calculated this according to astronomy and timeline of the events “A Wednesday Last Supper with the Crucifixion on Friday also allows just the right amount of time for all the events the Gospels record between the Last Supper and the Crucifixion”
  
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  KerryHuish

  @Anony Mous
  
  I respectfully disagree with the assertions that you made in your earlier post:
  
  1. You assert that somehow Nisan 14 was a Sabbath and that travel was restricted on that day.
  
  This is not true, Sabbath restrictions came into effect on Nisan 15 not Nisan 14.
  Nisan 14 was a 'day of preparation' for this, not a day of restriction.
  
  

  2. You assert that Jesus could not have travelled between the Mount of Olives, Herod’s Palace to the Temple twice and then to Golgotha - because he did not have a car.
  
  Again, these assertion are simply not true, the distances involved easily allow travel on foot through the night and morning of Nisan 14, to all those places:
  
  
  https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Map-of-Jerusalem-at-time-of-Christ-Jesus-left-Upper-Room-and-walked-with-disciples-to_fig1_19648788
  
  For those that are interested, there is good information here on the distances and times involved:
  
  https://ed5015.tripod.com/BCrucifixionDistances117.htm
  
  
  Kind Regards
  
  Kerry Huish
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  Anony Mous

  No, I did not say that Nisan 14 was a sabbath, I said that the events following the lord’s meal must have ended or gone through a sabbath if the assertion is that the lord’s meal, as JWs imply, happens on Nisan 14 after sundown. I was merely pointing out the logical error that if you put the Lord’s meal on the beginning of Nisan 14, the earliest he could’ve died and still fit in all the events was Nisan 15, and that is ignoring lots and lots of things that would still not make sense (like a lot of the legal procedures would need to starting and ending that night, as if a Roman was going to rise from his bed to adjudicate some poor sap).

  The Bible puts the day of death on EITHER Nisan 14 or Nisan 15 depending on the gospel and tradition says Nisan 14 was a Friday at about 3pm (because he needs to be taken down, wrapped and buried by 6pm). My opinion, as is that of most Bible scholars and churches is that the day of the Lord’s supper must have happened on that Wednesday or perhaps earlier (Nisan 12 for a death to happen by 3pm of Nisan 14). You keep implying there is a fixed date of Nisan 14, as JWs hold, in which everything, including the meal, must take place within ~20 hours, including the requisite two days of trial for a capital punishment, but it simply isn’t supported by Biblical or contemporary sources.
  
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  KerryHuish

  Jesus was a Jew and observed Jewish law.

  That very law stipulated the exact day on which the Passover was to be celebrated.

  It was not upto a Jew to decide that they would do it earlier or at a time of their choosing, as this would be a clear deviation from the law, an apostasy.

  (Numbers 9:13) But if anyone who is ceremonially clean and not on a journey fails to celebrate the Passover, they must be cut off from their people for not presenting the LORD’s offering at the appointed time. They will bear the consequences of their sin.

  In view of the religious leaders attempts to frame Jesus with some crime punishable by death, then I am sure that if he had celebrated the Passover with his disciples on any other day than that which was explicitly stipulated, then this most certainly would have been mentioned at his trial and would have indeed been something to have him lawfully cut off with.

  I believe that Jesus celebrated the Passover with his disciples in accordance with Jewish practice on the evening of Nisan 14 and was killed that very same day.

  I do not believe nor teach that Jesus was an apostate.

  Kind Regards

  Kerry Huish
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  Phizzy

  https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/209120/why-memorial-held-on-wrong-day

  Above is the Link to a Leolaias's excellent, erudite Thread on this, as usual, it is long, but very informative !
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  MeanMrMustard

  It feels like there is a thread about the inaccuracy of the memorial date every year....