by chester 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Please help me find a post.
The other day a poster related an experience about how she was told that she was not allowed to sit with another person who was also disfellowshiped.
I have been trying to find that post so I can show it to my wife. Can someone help me find it?
Also does anyone else hve an experience like that to share?
It is truly astonishing to hear about the way people are treated in this organization.
Chester
Hello,
I can't find it either, but I think you might mean the one I wrote.
I was DF, and I met up with another DF person ; I can't remember where, maybe at the mall or something. Since I don't drive (and never have), this person kindly offered to take me to meetings. We went together, sitting in the back and not talking to one another.. Just sat together. I didn't even make my usual wise cracks to my friend. Nothing.
An elder told my friend (I think the elder called) that DF persons may not sit together at the KH. I told my friend that I didn't see where we should have to play by the WTS rules; we were already DF, what else could they do to us? However, the elders had spoken and that was that. That was the end of my friend, which was a tragedy, because I think we could really have helped one another.
I also joined a Yahoo mailing list for JWs who were DF who wanted to go back; the group was disbanded when the list owner found out the DF persons may not communicate with other DF persons.
Apparently, we are so evil that we deserve NO human companionship. For if we are truly repentant, we won't speak with other DFs or worldly persons; and of course, we can't speak with other Witnesses. Where does that leave us? And if your family members are JWs, you are really screwed.
IMHO that is a terrible thing to try to do to an honest hearted person who has sinned, is sorry, and wants to make things right with Jehovah. I know that the JWs will say, "Well, you should have thought of that"....etc. ad nauseam...."and this way, you're left only with Jehovah so you can re-build the relationship you destroyed when you sinned".
Well, when Jehovah wants to go to the mall with me, he's more than welcome if he drives. And buys the drinks.
Beryl
Beryl, the WTS does let immediate family members (living in the same house) sit with DF'd family members, minor children, spouses, older parents, etc. But even that was made a written policy.
*** w59 7/15 448 Questions from Readers ***
With a view to helping sincerely repentant ones to get back into proper relationship with Jehovah God and his organization, it has been the policy of the Society to permit disfellowshiped persons to be present at all meetings at the Kingdom Hall that are open to the general public. For married persons Jesus set out the proper viewpoint when he said: "Did you not read that he who created them at the beginning made them male and female and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together let no man put apart." (Matt. 19:4-6) This rule would seem to apply at the Kingdom Hall as well as elsewhere. In view of this it would seem to be improper to force a separation between a man and his wife even if one or the other is disfellowshiped. This is not having fellowship spiritually on the part of the faithful one with the disfellowshiped partner. However, it would be wrong for the individual who is in good standing to try to force the company of the disfellowshiped mate upon the other brothers and sisters in the congregation in the endeavor to have them recognize the disfellowshiped one and have communion with that one.
*** w81 9/15 28 If a Relative Is Disfellowshiped . . . ***
I remember many years ago, there were about 4 or 5 disfellowshipped people sitting in a row at the Hall. They were counseled by an elder to break up this seating arrangement. Why??? The bottom line is that you are being PUNISHED. You are not to have ANY association at the Kingdom Hall or outside of it, if possible. You should be ASHAMED of yourself and hang your head down because you are a sinner, DEAD in the eyes of God and of all the other Witnesses in the Kingdom Hall. That's why no one will look into the eyes of a disfellowshipped person. It's because they're really DEAD. Who wants to look at a dead person??? When disfellowshipped people sit together it could give the appearance that all is well. they've got new friends, they can even talk a little bit to one another. After all they're disfellowshipped. Since no one else will talk to them they should be able to talk between themselves. But NO! This is a sign of disrespect toward all the other faithful members of the congregation. What might they think? That it's OK to get yourself disfellowshipped and then waltz into the KH with all your friends? This is supposed to be severe humiliation and punishment, not good times! So no, you can't sit with disfellowshipped persons. EVERYONE must shun DF'd ones, including fellow disfellowshipped ones. This will show that you're truly sorry.
Apparently, we are so evil that we deserve NO human companionship. For if we are truly repentant, we won't speak with other DFs or worldly persons; and of course, we can't speak with other Witnesses. Where does that leave us? And if your family members are JWs, you are really screwed.IMHO that is a terrible thing to try to do to an honest hearted person who has sinned, is sorry, and wants to make things right with Jehovah. I know that the JWs will say, "Well, you should have thought of that"....etc. ad nauseam...."and this way, you're left only with Jehovah so you can re-build the relationship you destroyed when you sinned".
Beryl.
Yes, It was your post I was referring to. Thank you for sharing that with us. My wife and I were talking about the terrible way people are treated in the organization. We really had no idea about a lot of the things that go on. You put it very well, they don't want a person who is DF to have ANY human companionship.
Blondie,
Thanks for those articles. My wife and I enjoy reading all of your posts. Especially the comments from the weekly WT study articles.
Minimus,
Thank you for your comments on this as well. We enjoy reading your posts as well.
Chester
That's why no one will look into the eyes of a disfellowshipped person.
While I was never brave enough to openly talk with a DF person at the KH, I most certainly looked them in the eyes and smiled. Again, that does not absolve me from my terrible sin of shunning persons based on what a group of three middle aged clueless men in polyester told me to do from a platform. It was wrong then; I knew it then; I still did it, but as usual, found "innocuous" ways in which to manifest my disapproval for the entire process of shunning.
I remember one sister's daughter was DF for getting pregnant (the boy involved was not - the reason being that she was "notorious" because she was pregnant....the WTS will always and forever find a way to punish women for their ability to create a life), and the sister with whom I studied said, "I'd like to call T. but I can't. Suppose her daughter answers the phone? I certainly don't want to say a greeting to her."
So, "T" never got phone calls from "C" merely because "C" did not want to speak with the DF daughter. How Christian was that?
Incidentally, "T" told me in advance her daughter was being DF. She mentioned this in front of about three other sisters besides myself. She said, "I just don't have the heart to sit there and go through that announcement and the humiliation." The other sisters were shocked when I said, "Well then, don't go." The counter-arguments were that this was a loving arrangement of Jehovah with which she needed to show she was in full agreement. (By the way, she wasn't.)
"T" took my advice. She stayed home.
Beryl
That's why no one will look into the eyes of a disfellowshipped person.
While I was never brave enough to openly talk with a DF person at the KH, I most certainly looked them in the eyes and smiled. Again, that does not absolve me from my terrible sin of shunning persons based on what a group of three middle aged clueless men in polyester told me to do from a platform. It was wrong then; I knew it then; I still did it, but as usual, found "innocuous" ways in which to manifest my disapproval for the entire process of shunning.
I remember one sister's daughter was DF for getting pregnant (the boy involved was not - the reason being that she was "notorious" because she was pregnant....the WTS will always and forever find a way to punish women for their ability to create a life), and the sister with whom I studied said, "I'd like to call T. but I can't. Suppose her daughter answers the phone? I certainly don't want to say a greeting to her."
So, "T" never got phone calls from "C" merely because "C" did not want to speak with the DF daughter. How Christian was that?
Incidentally, "T" told me in advance her daughter was being DF. She mentioned this in front of about three other sisters besides myself. She said, "I just don't have the heart to sit there and go through that announcement and the humiliation." The other sisters were shocked when I said, "Well then, don't go." The counter-arguments were that this was a loving arrangement of Jehovah with which she needed to show she was in full agreement. (By the way, she wasn't.)
"T" took my advice. She stayed home.
Beryl
Oh, and I stayed home too.
Beryl
Oh, and I stayed home too.
Beryl
Years ago I was DF'd and trying to get back in (how stupid is that) I met another DF'd person through my daughter. My daughter was in the same class at school with her son. I made the first contact with the DF'd mom and found out that she had three kids, no car and the elders had told her that she had to find her own way to the hall. I offered to give her a ride. That meant two women and eight kids packed in my station wagon but we did it three times a week. We did not sit together at the hall. But of course the elders put a stop to it. I was told that if I ever intended to get reinstated I had to stop associating with that person. I was ordered to stop providing her with a ride to the hall. Fortunately we had found her an old car that she could buy soon after. We could have become good friends but NO. Like it has been said DF'd persons are expected to have no human contact at all. If it wasn't for my children I would have been totally lost. I saw her at a convention a year later. I overheard her daughter ask if I was reinstated. She whispered, "I don't know." and walked away. The fear was still there. so sad.
Loris
