gamaliel:
those were great "experiences", i'd love to hear more.
For those of you with personal experiences with the GB...
by logansrun 16 Replies latest jw friends
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cruzanheart
Gamalial, you have wonderful stories! I knew Gangas too, because of the Greek connection. My mom is Greek, and my grandmother, who spoke no English, attended one of the Greek congregations up around Englewood, New Jersey. At the 1958 assembly we sat in the Greek section with my grandmother while my dad ran around dealing with the sound system. In the 1970's my parents and I attended a Greek assembly somewhere in the Pennsylvania/New York area and Gangas was there as one of the speakers. He was very nice, remembered my grandmother (who died in 1961), and spoke with my mother for quite a while -- in Greek, of course, so don't ask me what was discussed. I learned Greek along with English from my grandmother living with us when I was little, but I don't speak it well. I have, however, looked into the NT Greek and studied some classical Greek and one of these days (in my spare time, ha ha) I would like to go a little more in depth. It's a very descriptive language and doesn't leave too many words to chance interpretation. Sometimes, however, it is difficult to get the point across in English, which has probably led to a whole lot of mistranslations in the NT.
And I met Nathan H. Knorr once and have the photo to prove it. He was a speaker at a Puerto Rico assembly we were attending in the late 1960's (probably 1968), and my parents wanted me to have my picture taken with him. He was VERY annoyed (which shows in the photo) and told my dad: "Don't take my picture just because of who I am -- I'm not special, I'm just another brother." That impressed me.
Okay, now for a Freddie Franz story and then I'll shut up and get to work. My dad, as I said above, was part of the great crowd in charge of the sound system at the 1958 assembly. He said that they got to know the speakers really well, and their speaking habits, and Freddie Franz had a bad habit of "crawling up the mike" when he spoke, which would play havoc with the sound system. So what they did was give him a dummy mike and put the real microphone about a foot back so that they could control the sound better. Fred Franz was the ONLY speaker who could keep this 2 1/2 year old awake. Give him an "A" for enthusiasm, at least!
Nina
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Gamaliel
I wasn't going to tell any more "experiences" now because I thought the idea was to be as nice as possible in light of Milton Henschel's recent death. Gangas and Booth are about the only two I can really say anything nice about.
Of course, everybody loved Raymond, that is, until we were told we were supposed to start hating him. I actually had to avoid Ray Franz on purpose for the last couple years there, because it was obvious he had "caught on" and I didn't want him tainted by the fact that I was already doing my part in spreading doubts about 1914, 1919, salvation by JW works, authority of the fds, 144,000, etc. Even though the idea was to use the kinds of comments and questions that no one could attack you for, tt was still dangerous, because someone could always lie and claim you said something else. ("A Man For All Seasons" was already my favorite movie.) I only knew of Ray's situation from someone who spoke to him regularly. I spent a few minutes with him on his last day at Bethel, and a few more since then, but not before then.
Lloyd Barry was a nice quiet neighbor of mine, and he probably wished I was a quiet neighbor of his. He always had a nice smile, though. I knew someone who thought Lloyd's wife was coming on to him. (So I don't know which one of them was crazy.)
Outside of that I agree wholeheartedly with AlanF's assessment of Bert Schroeder. Bert was very good to me, though, and told people he thought of me as a son. He even embarrassed me by mentioning me, almost by name, during his text comments. My table head knew it was me, and didn't let me live it down for a long time. Bert gave me full permissoin to use his office, even when he wasn't there. My parent's were thrilled, of course, at these "privileges". My family got to meet them, too. I think it added tremendously to my parent's anger when I told them the truth about Bethel, even a couple years before I left officially.
I warned my parents that my older brother, who had applied, would leave the JWs if he saw what I had seen. My father has become very very quiet over all this for the past 20 years, but I know my mother still blames me for showing "things" to my brother. She used to say I must have been demonized to get him to turn away. (She even called me a demon once!!) I think I angered my mother the most when I said that although I don't think she herself would leave, that if Dad (an elder) saw what I saw, he would definitely leave the JWs. The very idea of what I might have meant has haunted her for 20 years (and quieted my Dad). My brother stayed on at Bethel a year or so after I left, but he was staying on for the same reasons I did, to try to work on the system from the inside. He almost got DF'd during the 1980's "witch hunts." If I can get him on the forum I'll ask him to tell you about how Brother Klein (GB) went completely insane, screaming violently and literally drooling like a madman, during my brother's "loyalty" trial. My brother survived it unscathed. He has better acting skills than I do.
Gamaliel
My parents are speaking to me again, as if nothing happened. "Losing" all three of their kids to things we saw in the WTS still hasn't made them truly look into it for themselves though. But my father has fnally got to a point where he is defending his association with them with arguments like: "It's still a place with the most brotherly love." I'd like to believe that he's just quietly finished with the doctrines and is just staying for my mother and their friends. The only talks he likes to give now are the "Jehovah's Wondrous Creations" type.
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Gamaliel
Nina,
That's a great story about FWF and the mike. And it "rings" true, if you know what I mean. I've seen it many times. Our dads could have known each other. My father, who still works as an electrical engineer (at 70), was always designing sound systems for quick set ups at the auditoriums, race tracks, ball parks, etc. He designed and sometimes built the sound system in many of the Assembly Halls, and he still designs amps and pre-amps for commercial use now that he's retired from the university.
We typically got the best seats and the air-conditioned booths because my dad just loved to run the sound systems. It made pioneering easy too because the WTS would credit me with up to 100 free hours if I would help him in "pre-assembly" work. How fair was that? The yearbook includes 100 of my "pioneer" hours in each year from 1972-1975 that for me were actually spent stringing wires, and painting signs through the day and guard duty at night. And I know there were many more doing that besides me.
Somehow, the WTS managed to convince all of us that giving away our time and skills for free was a great privilege.
Gamaliel
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outoftheorg
Gamaliel, I thought my df'ing and the insane screaming was unique.
Not to change the subject, but I was df'd on the charge of fits of rage. Do to the elders acknowledging that out of the 5 complainants that they would believe, 2 sisters had been molested by an elder. One of the 2 was my daughter. Yes I was raging angry about this and told them so.
This elder was left to preach, on how to be a good christian, to us all. No action of any kind was taken. It is clear the wbts told them to drop the issue.
At the conclusion of my appeal, this one elder that had said nothing, suddenly held up the elders secret book of laws (forgot the title) and started to scream insanly at me about how they had the authority to do this and such. That this book he called it, is where they get this authority and he waved it madly around.
I guess more than I, experienced this behaviour.
Outoftheorg
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Ravyn
after reading this thread I am struck with how many on here are from NJ/NY. Perhaps you knew me or my family? (This is a BIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIG step for me here......) I was born and raised in Woodbine, NJ congregation---one of the 'shore points' many of the GB and Bethelites frequented for week end trips. I was baptized at Buckingham Assembly Hall in New Hope, PA. And Ted gave my dedication talk. That was May 25, 1974 one week after my 12th birthday. I was friendly with most KH's in the area- Millville, Vineland, Bridgeton, Cape May area. My father was an elder the second year of the 'arrangement' and was a prolific and charismatic speaker. He also partook from 1974 on. He was PO for many years. I lived in the area from 1962-1979 and then in 1981-1982. My parents split up in 1986 and they moved back there and are still there. Maybe you know the name? (hesitating....) Pangburn?
When my parents split up I legally changed my name to what my mother had intended it to be all along. So I have had a different name for almost 20 years, and I am also married now--so even that name has changed.
I would love to find out if anyone I knew as a kid has been able to get free!
Because of my father's influential personality I grew up knowing many of the GB and spending alot of time at 124 Columbia Heights et al. I remember going up there with Dad once to pick up the congregation's literature order and sitting on a black shiny piano bench. Bro. Swingle came down and asked me if I could play. I told him I was taking lessons and he told me to be sure to practice. I slipped and told him that I was missing my lesson that day by being there with my dad. He MADE me do my lessons right then and there! I was embarrassed--I was about 8 yrs old. And then Bro Henschel came in and he said something about the piano needing tuning real bad and winked at me.
Bro Franz let me sit on his lap once at dinner at someone's house because there was no room for me at the grownups table and I wanted to listen to their talking. Bro. Sidlik was a wonderful man, but sadly my memories of him are tarnished and I would rather not go into it here right now. I remember Bro Gangas--he was so mysterious to me. So many I have met--but I forget their names now--most dead. These were happy memories of planning on being a foreign missionary when I grew up and living in paradise...
I never had a bad experience with any of them as a child. In fact, even tho my father was/is certifiably schizophrenic, I have to say that his brand of JW was preferable to what it took me 11 years out of his house on my own to discover. If I had stayed in NJ I probably would not have left JWs until all the old timers were gone. NJ as a place has a certain spirituality I have never found anywhere else(and believe me I have been ALOT of other places looking!) I even liked the Mormons in NJ. The old timers I knew as a child were alot more open-minded and were not afraid to disagree with the Borg. It was until I was a young adult and living in California and Georgia and Idaho and Vermont that I discovered how whacked JWs were as a group. I can't recall anyone ever succumbing to mental illnesses back in the 60's. I think most of the crazies came in around the 1975 fiasco. It makes me sad to think about it--nostalgic.
Maybe it was not reality, but it is my memories.
Ravyn
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metatron
My experiences largely match those of Gamaliel and Alan F.
The whole thing here is the "banality of evil" - a phrase derived from observation of the Nazis. Many of them were
ordinary people with families who simply did their job without thinking - read about Adolf Eichman and others
and note how ordinary many of them seemed.
Aside from a twisted man like Jaracz, the problem was that these men were, frankly, just plain dim - lacking in
critical thinking skills - but sadly governing over the intimate details of other people's lives. Franz was the exception
but his mind worked in odd tangents and no one ever challenged him, even when his reasoning was wildly off.
I honestly thought "this must be God's organization" after I met these men because I couldn't understand
how everything functioned with so many men who weren't THAT BRIGHT!! Little did I realize the depth
of their coverups and corruption.
I attended the midweek steam room meeting with naked old men, Franz included - ONCE
I couldn't stand the heat and left. Knorr was the most negative human I've ever known - yet, some
saw a nicer side I never experienced. I admired Sydlik for being "a man" and grabbing a much younger
( and very hot) wife. It gave me some hope amidst all the wrinkled deadheads running the place.
metatron