Question for JW's: Is Jesus the Mediator of Your Prayers ?

by Sea Breeze 24 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • HereIam60
    HereIam60

    My view, in short:

    Yes Jesus is my mediator...the one mediator between God and men who gave himself a ransom for all. He said no man can come to him unless the Father draws him, and no man can come to the Father except through him (Christ). He is the great and sympathetic High Priest, always alive to plead for us, so we may freely approach the throne. So yes I pray to Jehovah in Jesus' name and also speak directly to Jesus as did Stephen and John.

    The Witness teaching of Jesus being mediator of a covenant only for the 144,00 annointed , chosen for heaven, ones is still "on the books", but I think is unknown to, or ignored by many, perhaps a majority of current Witnesses.

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  • Rattigan350
    Rattigan350

    "speak directly to Jesus as did Stephen and John."

    Stephen and John saw Jesus in visions. I doubt you do.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the teaching that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant for the anointed 144,000 only. The problem is when people say 'Jesus is not your mediator' and they leave it a general statement. As HerIam60 said "the one mediator between God and men who gave himself a ransom for all."

    He mediates for all through his priestly duties.

    He mediates the new covenant for the anointed only.

    Why is it that people don't understand how he does both differently? I've explained it but the problem is that people just want to put themselves into the new covenant. But God does the electing, not your hopes.

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  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with the teaching that Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant for the anointed 144,000 only.

    Sure there is Rattigan, and it is huge. If Christians are supposed to personally reject the new covenant "for forgiveness of sins" Jesus offered in Mt, 26: 27-28, then there must be some other NT scripture that shows how a person can get their sins forgiven OUTSIDE OF THE NEW COVENANT.. You cannot produce such a new testament scripture can you? No, you cannot. It doesn't exist.

    Romans 5: 1&9 says that because we are justified we have peace with God. And, because we are justified we will escape God's wrath.

    You cannot change this scripture no matter how much you may want to. It is there. Anyone can read it, understand it, and decide if they want peace with God or not.


    Yet, your church (Watchtower) says people can no longer be justified. They say to just trust them to attain peace with God and avoid his wrath. This is anti-Christ Rebellion full stop.

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  • Sea Breeze
    Sea Breeze

    From time to time people who still adhere to Watchtower insanity try to insinuate, even claim that there are two covenants in the New Testament and not one. This is then used as justification for rejecting the one that is actually in the bible "for the forgiveness of sins" in favor of an imaginary one where you get to work for your salvation and Justification (forgiveness of sins) for a thousand years.

    @Rattigan:

    THERE ARE NOT TWO COVENANTS IN THE NEW TESTAMENT. The very name proves there is only one. THE (singular) New Testament (covenant or contract)

    Please provide a Watchtower quote that supports the heretical claim that there are two covenants in the NT. Even Watchtower has NEVER claimed something this ridiculous. Prove me wrong.

    The Greek word for "testament" means a covenant or contract. There are only 2 contracts that God has instituted for the forgiveness of sins - an old one mediated by Moses. and a new one mediated by Jesus. That is why the bible is divided by the two contracts, ie. the old testament (contract) and the new testament (contract). The entire book of Hebrews describes the details of the new covenant and how it is so much better than the old contract.

    E-Sword is powerful free bible software and has KJV words keyed to Strong’s. It makes it very easy to look up and compare Greek and English words. See below:

    Rom_11:27 For G2532 this G3778 is (G3844) my G1700 covenant G1242 unto them, G846 when G3752 I shall take away G851 their G848 sins. G266

    Apostle Paul reiterates what this covenant is for in Romans 11: 27 above - taking away sins. English words are tied to Strong's so that it makes it easy for you to look up Greek meanings. Here is what the English word “Covenant” looks like:

    Strong’s G1242 :

    διαθήκη

    diathēkē

    dee-ath-ay'-kay

    From G1303; properly a disposition, that is, (specifically) a contract (especially a devisory will): - covenant, testament.

    Total KJV occurrences: 33

    In Luke, Jesus doesn’t make another covenant as you suggest. He appoints Christians to a Kingdom under the terms of, or as a result of, the new covenant “for the forgiveness of sins.

    (Luke 22:29) And I G2504 appoint G1303 unto you G5213 a kingdom, G932 as G2531 my G3450 Father G3962 hath appointed G1303 unto me; G3427

    Strong’s G1303 :

    διατίθεμαι

    diatithemai

    dee-at-ith'-em-ahee

    Middle voice from G1223 and G5087; to put apart, that is, (figuratively) dispose (by assignment, compact or bequest): - appoint, make, testator.

    Total KJV occurrences: 7

    Two completely different Greek words here; and trying to make them mean that we are talking about two covenants, not one is not supported.

    Like I said, Watchtower never claims there are two covenants, only one - “for the forgiveness of sins”.

    Watchtower theology is a thoroughly wicked and Satanic religious system that has gone to great lengths to trick people into rejecting the contract God offered to “whosoever” that guarantees the forgiveness of YOUR sins.

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  • aqwsed12345
    aqwsed12345
    @Rattigan350

    Your entire construction collapses the moment you open the Bible instead of the Watchtower. Scripture never separates “covenant‑mediator” Jesus from “prayer‑mediator” Jesus, never limits His priestly intercession to 144000 insiders, never treats Paul’s letters as private mail that may be ignored, and never grants a later “Revelation update” permission to rewrite what the apostles had already handed on “once for all” (Jude3).

    Begin with the keystone you attempt to remove: Paul’s words are not Scripture. The apostle Peter thought otherwise: he places “all Paul’s epistles” beside “the rest of the Scriptures” (2Pet3:15‑16). A first‑century eyewitness thus canonises the very sentence you discard: “There is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1Tim2:5). Your move requires us to believe Peter was inspired when writing his own letter yet deceived about Paul’s. That is self‑refuting.

    Because that verse is Scripture, it speaks with the same authority as Hebrews. And Hebrews teaches that Christ’s priestly mediation and His covenant mediation are one undivided act. He “entered once for all into the holy place by His own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption” (Heb9:12). The blood is simultaneously the covenant seal and the liturgical offering; the priest and the victim are the same person; therefore access to the Father in prayer flows directly from the blood of the covenant. To prise the two apart is to mutilate the text.

    Matthew 26:28 says exactly what you deny it says. The Greek phrase to hyper pollōn ekchynnomenon eis aphesin hamartiōn unites the clauses: this (my blood of the covenant) is poured out for the forgiveness of sins. The covenant, the sacrifice and the remission are inseparable. Aaron could not do that; Moses could not do that; only the God‑Man could, and He did it “for many” without a numerical ceiling.

    Nor does Hebrews confine the covenant to an elect aristocracy. The promise cited (Jer31:31‑34) speaks of all the people knowing the Lord, “from the least of them to the greatest.” When the letter explains its fulfilment, it declares that Jesus is able to “save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through Him” (Heb7:25). No hint appears of a secondary crowd admitted only to a cleaned‑up earth after the millennium. Nearness to God—the very thing prayer expresses—is the covenant’s core privilege; Christ “ever lives to make intercession” for everyone who comes, not for an inner ring of 0.02% while the rest mumble “unscrambled” petitions from afar.

    Your analogy of scrambled television signals is cute but collapses under its own weight. If God cannot “hear” a human cry unless Jesus tags it with an anointed code, how did He hear Cornelius before the apostle arrived (Acts10:4)? Cornelius did not belong to any “spiritual Israel”; he was still an uncircumcised Gentile, yet “your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.” The Father’s ears were open because Christ’s priesthood is cosmic, not parochial.

    The born‑again discourse likewise demolishes your caste system. In Greek Jesus shifts from singular to plural: “Do not marvel that I said to you (Nicodemus) all of you (humas, second person plural) must be born from above” (Jn3:7). The rebirth requirement extends beyond a first‑century Jewish audience; the Spirit “blows where He wills,” and every believer receives “the Spirit of adoption crying Abba, Father” (Rom8:15). Limiting the new birth to 144000 contradicts Christ’s own grammar.

    Your dismissal of apostolic authority—“they didn’t have Revelation yet” and “old light”—overlooks the way Revelation itself treats the apostolic deposit. The seven churches are judged by the gospel they already received; nothing in Revelation retracts Paul’s proclamation of a universal mediator, nothing annuls John’s insistence that “whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God” (1Jn4:15). The final vision shows the nations walking inside the heavenly Jerusalem, not orbiting it as eternal gardeners. Kings of the earth carry their glory into the city (Rev21:24); the Lamb’s throne is in their midst; “His servants shall serve Him and see His face” (22:4). That is the destiny of the redeemed—no mezzanine level, no downgraded class.

    Symbolic arithmetic cannot override explicit doctrine. The 144000 are introduced in hearing and immediately followed by the vision of “a great multitude which no one could number, standing before the throne” (Rev7:9). The juxtaposition—census list followed by limitless crowd—signals that the numbered army and the innumerable assembly are two perspectives on the same redeemed people. The elders in chapter5 represent that same people under the image of Israel’s twelve tribes and the Church’s twelve apostles; they are not a separate, superior species. You have conflated iconography into a class system Scripture never suggests.

    Finally, your theory makes the gospel incoherent. If Christ’s blood objectively atones but subjectively applies only to a quota, the rest of humanity remains alienated until some millennial remedial course. Yet Paul proclaims the reconciliation already achieved: “In Christ God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them” (2Cor5:19). He pleads with every listener—no quotas, no exclusions—“be reconciled to God.” That is why the Church, from Pentecost forward, baptises all nations into the one death and one resurrection of the one Mediator.

    Christ unites in His own person everything Moses and Aaron enacted separately, because He is both Son of God and Son of Man. Precisely therefore He is High Priest and Covenant Mediator for the entire race He assumed. Separate the offices, shrink the beneficiaries, and you sever the lifeline of salvation. Leave them united, and you discover the catholic—i.e., universal—scope of the gospel: “Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

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