slimboyfat joins the Christadelphians!

by slimboyfat 46 Replies latest members private

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I went to a second Christadelphian meeting in another ecclesia on Sunday. They meet in a rented room in a large school/library building in Chryston. I turned up for a "public talk" at 1.30 pm, but the speaker cancelled and there was a Bible discussion instead.

    This was a much younger congregation - sorry ecclesia - than Glasgow Central. There were 33 people in attendance, and 13 of them broke off for a children's Sunday school in another room. That left 20 of us to discuss Job chapters 1 to 4. They took turns reading two verses each until they read the whole section. I did not join in reading although I think they would have allowed me if I wished. Neither did I join the discussion. This is apparently the largest Christadelphian meeting in Scotland and the most vibrant. Still pretty small though. There was an even mixture of Scottish and English accents in the group. All white, middle middle and lower middle class in appearance, a roughly even split between men and women, including a few full families.

    It was a slow-paced discussion. The youngish leader sat at a desk in front and allowed others to do most of the talking. There were periods of silence between contributions. It stuck me again that Christadelphian meetings are much slower-paced than JW meetings. JW elders are always in a rush to cover the parts. Christadelphians take their time and don't worry about covering a programme in full.

    In the discussion of Job 1and 2 they had to tackle the problem of "Satan". It's a problem for Christadelphians because they don't belelieve Satan exists. Yet he appears quite stubborn about his existence in Job 1 and 2 in particular. One brother said that the word for Satan simply means adversary and that putting a capital letter on the word Satan is simply the choice of the modern translator. Another brother read a verse from Job 42 that says God visited evil on Job rather than Satan. He therefore concluded that Satan is not a heavenly being. Another brother said we can't be sure what Job 1 and 2 means about Satan, but "what we can know for sure is that Satan isn't some sort of powerful being in heaven, we can be sure about that".

    Then they talked about Eliphaz and how his advice appeared good and godly on the surface, but was deceptive on closer inspection. They seem to know their Bibles very well and take study very seriously.

    At the end one man told me about prophecy in Israel and how Putin is the king of the north and will bring about Armageddon. He said JWs have got a lot of things wrong, including "1924 or whenever it was". I pressed him on how soon Armageddon will come. He said it will be soon but we don't know the day or the hour. I pressed him further and said could it possibly take hundreds of years. He conceded this was possible, but not likely. I found it difficult to take this conversation too seriously and I think he sensed this in the end. We were not on a wavelength on this issue. I tried to be respectful. Another brother with an English accent who lives near me invited me to come for group Bible study during the week (at his home, with cakes after, just like the old "book study") and gave me his mobile number. Then I left late to get to a Methodist meeting half an hour away.

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I went to a Christadelphian Bible study group in someone's home the other day. There were lots of interesting things I could mention. I will try to recall some.

    It was very reminiscent of the old book study groups. Quite nostalgic actually. They even had tea and cakes after.

    It was in a family home: parents and three teenage children. But the children didn't join the Bible study. They stayed upstairs in their rooms, or went elsewhere, I'm not sure. Christadelphians don't insist that their children join all their meetings. It's not an issue. In a JW home if children didn't join the book study group I think that would have been awkward and embarrassing for the parents. But this didn't seem awkward, it was natural.

    In the small group there were the middle aged couple, three older ladies and me. The man conducting the meeting said a short prayer. I was the only one I heard say amen. The women at this meeting talked freely during the meeting and didn't wear hats or head coverings.

    We took turns reading scriptures assigned for the day: Job 6 and 7, Micah 2 and Hebrews 12. Most of the time it was just reading and a few comments in between. Slow paced and quite relaxed, most of the comments were just, "I wonder what this means", and reading different versions to get the answer. Most had King James Bibles. I had an NIV Bible. The man who conducted the meeting used his laptop to read the Bible and switched between versions (and the news at one point, about Jerusalem). There were a few ocassional references to what a preacher had said about a topic (Vincent, someone?) but there was no programme or apparent agenda. So it was a much more free discussion than at the old book studies. I was impressed by the quality of reading and how they read the scriptures as if it makes sense on its own: whole long passages. JWs never did that.

    After the meeting the woman of the couple told me she met a lot of JWs in Ukraine while she was there preaching the Christadelphian message. She said there were thousands of JWs, but Christadelphians were very few in number. The man commented that, "all JWs seem to care about is adding numbers all the time". Christadelphians care more about the truth.

    They also told me that at weekends their children meet up with other Christadelphians across the country for special church programmes. And in the summer there are church camps for the children. I told them JWs don't have anything like that for children. No Sunday school either. They just have to sit in the meetings.

    One of the older women had just become a grandmother and was showing lots of pictures.

    They told me there is going to be some sort of special Christmas celebration at the church next week. But the woman seemed a bit embarrassed about it. She said it was a new thing for a Christadelphians to celebrate Christmas. Traditionally they didn't celebrate Christmas. I said JWs say Christmas is pagan. The man said he agrees with that! But they celebrate Christmas for the children.

    The man conducting the meeting related the news that Donald Trump had just recognised Jerusalem as capital of Israel, which caused a stir of excitement. Another older woman said it was 100 years since Jerusalem was "liberated". Without stating it explicitly it seemed they thought this is important for Bible prophecy. And it occurred to me that, for all their whackiness, at least JWs never get involved in the relentless Israel/prophecy speculation that tends to plague other fundy groups.

    During the conversation it also became apparent just how interconnected Christadelphians are, and that most of them had heard about me. All over Scotland. Some of the women there were related to the couple of the house, and also to the door man I had spoken to in Glasgow Central on my first visit. The man conducting the meeting had already heard about me from another man at Glasgow Central who gave me the booklets. He had called and said I might turn up at the other meeting before I did. So when I arrived at the other meeting they already knew who I was. I am not describing it well, but basically they had all been talking about me and knew who I was before I turned up. After the man conducting the meeting described all this, one of the older women said: "he'll be scared off coming back here after hearing all that". Slightly uncomfortable, but they were all friendly, so not too bad.

    Altogether it was a very interesting experience. If anyone is nostalgic for the old book studies, then a Christadelphian house Bible study is probably one of the closest experiences you're going to get these days.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    I recommend that you research the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith) and its "The Church of God General Conference". They are related to the Christadelphians. One of the person's who started the Church of God (Abrahamic Faith) was the author of the Emphatic Diaglott. Despite claims to the contrary Benjamin Wilson never was a Christadelphian. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_God_of_the_Abrahamic_Faith .

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Slimboy said " Christadelphians care more about the truth ". That is the impression I got when writing to one of the guys whom published a Book explaining their Faith. I forget his name, Peter something ?

    I got the impression they were humble, and really nice people. but he did tell me that he thought it unlikely that their Doctrines would ever change much, they seem to have a resistance to new ideas , somewhat.

    However, I found that refreshing, compared to the ever Shifting Sands of JW Doctrine !

  • dropoffyourkeylee
    dropoffyourkeylee

    I miss the 'SBF joins the -whatever-' posts. Good times

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    I still attend Christadelphian meetings regularly. They really know their Bible.

    I have read about the Church of God of Abrahamic Faith, but there are none in the UK, as far as I’m aware. They are mainly in Midwest. I’ve read quite a bit by Anthony Buzzard too. I think he’s affiliated with one of the Biblical Unitarian, or Socinian groups, but he affirms a personal devil, contrary to Christadelphians.

    Phizzy, Peter Watkins, maybe? .

    dropoffyourkeylee, I’ve got a new plan Stan—to write up more. I did visit a few other churches I didn’t get round to writing up. The most interesting was Grace Communion International, which is the reformed version of Herbert Armstrong’s Worldwide Church of God. In fact I visited two of their churches, and they were quite interesting. They have embraced the Trinity, immortal soul, and “faith alone” salvation—the whole lot. I also spoke to philosopher Julian Baggini who has a background with them.

    I also visited a very small Pentecostal group in the centre of Glasgow, a couple of Brethren groups, and a Baptist church. I can’t remember if I wrote up the Christian Scientists either, I think I did.

  • Disillusioned JW
    Disillusioned JW

    Did you visit the Church of God (Seventh Day) and the web site of their General Conference of the Church of God (Seventh Day)? [See https://cog7.org .] I ordered some booklets by them and was impressed by a number of their teachings (in regards to how harmonious they are with the Bible). The church now seems to teach that Jesus is God (but not originally), but at least one congregation's pastor refuses to teach that doctrine (at least he told me so when I had a conversation with him many years ago). He told me a number of ex-JWs joined his congregation. He seemed to be a very honest and honorable man who believes in the Bible.

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