The case of Jamal Khashoggi (page 2)

shepherdless

There is a suggestion in the thread above that Khashoggi was a friend of bin Laden. It appears he was in the 1980s. Khashoggi interviewed bin Laden in in Afghanistan back then, at a time when the CIA was funding bin Laden and other Muhadjadeen, and Al Qaeda didn't exist.

Some info here:

https://www.businesslive.co.za/bd/world/middle-east/2018-10-19-jamal-khashoggi-once-a-friend-of-bin-laden-died-a-critic-of-saudi-arabias-extremism/

It is natural that the Saudis would claim he has connections with or sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood. That is their standard criticism of any pro-democratic Muslim. (The main ideological difference between Wahhabism and Salafist/Muslim Brotherhood is that the latter is amenable to democracy; the former is not.)

Khashoggi's disappearance or execution is nothing new, since MBS has become powerful, and even before he became Crown Prince. Eg see the following, for some others kidnapped from Europe:

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40926963

MBS started the war in Yemen. The worst war on the planet in the last few years, after the Yemenis rejected the president Saudi Arabia wanted in charge. He doesn't even put troops on the ground. He just bombs them from the air, trying to starve them into submission, using US supplied weapons. The long term consequences are likely to be devastating. Yemen, though poor, has a population nearly the size of Saudi Arabia.

Many people might not know there is a significant Shiite minority in Saudi Arabia. MBS has also waged all out war against them, in one location:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-security-awamiya/saudi-security-forces-flatten-old-quarter-of-shiite-town-idUSKBN1AP21S

Lets not forget MBS kidnapped the Lebanese Prime Minister in Nov last year:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/surprise-resignation-of-lebanon-prime-minister-saad-hariri-saudi-arabia-tv-interview

Overall, the Saudi regime under MBS is the new Saddam Hussain or Col Gaddafi. Possibly a lot more dangerous.

LoveUniHateExams

There is a suggestion in the thread above that Khashoggi was a friend of bin Laden. It appears he was in the 1980s - I read that Khashoggi's friendship with Bin Laden ended after Khashoggi publicly condemned the 9-11 attacks.

It is natural that the Saudis would claim he has connections with or sympathy for the Muslim Brotherhood. That is their standard criticism of any pro-democratic Muslim - I read that Khashoggi joined the Muslim Brotherhood in 1970. When did he leave the organisation?

(The main ideological difference between Wahhabism and Salafist/Muslim Brotherhood is that the latter is amenable to democracy; the former is not.) - yes, one of my previous posts stated this.

And 'amenable to democracy' are weasel words. More accurately, the Muslim Brotherhood's aim is to use a democratic vote to usher in Sharia, after which there will be no more democratic votes.

It's important to state this and distinguish it from groups which genuinely believe in democracy!

Many people might not know there is a significant Shiite minority in Saudi Arabia - yes, I know this. The Shia minority is mostly concentrated in the oil-rich eastern areas. I remember reading about Nimr Al-Nimr, a Saudi Shia cleric, in 2017. He was arrested at a pro-Shia demonstration and charged with terrorism. He was publicly beheaded. Quite what Saudi Shia have to do with Jamal Khashoggi (Sunni) is unclear.

There is also a substantial Shia presence in Yemen (c.40%), Iraq (c. 55-60%, a slim majority) and Bahrain (where they make up a large majority but the ruling elite are Sunni).

Possibly a lot more dangerous - I'm not saying Saudi isn't dangerous or an oppressive country. I'm simply pointing out that Khashoggi wasn't the liberal darling that some sections of the MSM held him to be.

_Morpheus

Not buying any of it shep. He was indeed a friend a osama. They went to high school together. https://canadafreepress.com/article/the-ugly-terror-truth-about-jamal-khashoggi

He was in fact a MB guy. Read any of the shit he wrote. It was 100% of the time focused of the mb and against anything the mb didnt like.

as for the saudi’s, again, as noted before and previously stated, they arnt perfect, but they are anti iran and allies with isreal and that makes their interests good for the rest of the world.

If the usa issues one sanction or statement of condemnation they are fools. This shouldnt even be addressed.

shepherdless

I wasn't particularly having a go at you, LUHE. Anyway:

I read that Khashoggi's friendship with Bin Laden ended after Khashoggi publicly condemned the 9-11 attacks.

Do you have any evidence of any contact between the two after bin Laden founded Al Qaeda?

I read that Khashoggi joined the Muslim Brotherhood in 1970. When did he leave the organisation?

1970? Sheesh. That is like asking when did someone leave the liberals, the social justice warriors, or the red necks. Where does one fill out a form to leave the Muslim Brotherhood? Where does one fill out a form to leave the red necks.

By the way, when I was in the middle east working with a lot of Arabs, one Arab (never had been to a Western country) told me there was an evil policical organisation he had heard about in the USA, that hate Arab, and they were called "The Red Necks".

More accurately, the Muslim Brotherhood's aim is to use a democratic vote to usher in Sharia, after which there will be no more democratic votes.

Muslim Brotherhood would (consistent with their interpretation of Sharia law) want to establish a Majlis, which is loosely equivalent to a parliament. The democratically elected parliaments in countries such as Iran, Oman and Maldives, for example, are all called a Majlis. (The one in Oman has no real power.)

It's important to state this and distinguish it from groups which genuinely believe in democracy!

I wish it was that simple. Irrespective of religion or political leaning, there are always people who seek power, and are happy to pander to whatever ideological or social appeals may be available to advance their quests for power.

Eg the Ayatollahs got power from the Shah of Iran with massive support of those seeking democracy, and also various communist leaning groups. The Ayatollahs would never have succeeded otherwise. After they got power, they systematically executed the communists.

One thing for certain; MBS doesn't support democracy.

_Morpheus

Your lies about the aims of the mb are obvious. They are a terrorist organization, who has called for among other things, the violent overthrow of isreal.

shepherdless

Morpheus, the bin Ladens are a well known and wealthy family in Saudi Arabia. So what, that they went to school together.

I went to school with someone who turned into a well known conservative politician in my country. In fact my dad and his dad were best friends. I went to Uni with someone who turned into a well known left wing politician, who I also share a family connection. What can you tell from my political views from that? I will give you a hint; zero.

The link you attach doesn't factually contradict anything I have said.

as for the saudi’s, again, as noted before and previously stated, they arnt perfect, but they are anti iran and allies with isreal and that makes their interests good for the rest of the world.

Can you please explain, in your own words, what threat Iran poses? If you are going to argue that they were (under a previous regime) trying to build a nuclear bomb, that is true. And there is an obvious answer.

There are definitely issues with Iran. However, I would love to hear a conservative American (assuming you are one) try and explain and set out what they are.

shepherdless

Your lies about the aims of the mb are obvious. They are a terrorist organization, who has called for among other things, the violent overthrow of isreal.

In my experience, pretty much all Arabs call for the violent overthrow of Israel. (Not something I support at all.)

shepherdless

They are a terrorist organization

Just occured to me. Can you name a state (other than a Wahhabi autocracy) that labels them a terrorist organisation? There may be one or two, but I can't name any.

shepherdless

Another question for Morpheus:

Can you identify any terrorist attack by the Muslim Brotherhood in the last 20 years, excluding Israel?

I exclude Israel, because if you include Israel, it all becomes murky. Almost every Arab terrorist group tries to attack Israel and every purported Arab terrorist group is accused of attacking them, so you end up in an endless downward spiral trying to resolve responsibility.

cofty

Morph - Conflating the MB with Osama bin Laden shows a very shallow understanding of Islamism.

Saudi was the primary target of bin Laden's anger.

The case of Jamal Khashoggi

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