"We wouldn't know the truth"

by RunningMan 14 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Sometimes when I point out the Society’s poor track record, particularly their many changes and errors, I am faced with the argument that all of these changes were in the past. Now, because of the refining of their beliefs, they are all correct. Besides, if it weren’t for them, “we wouldn’t know the truth”.

    What exactly does that mean – “we wouldn’t know the truth”? Precisely what do we know, courtesy of the Watchtower Society, that we wouldn’t know otherwise?

    It is very easy to look back over the past century and pick out all of the things about which they were wrong. But it is much more difficult to identify the current doctrines which are in error.

    For those who think that the current doctrines are all true, just because they haven’t yet been discarded, here is my comprehensive list of current doctrines which are logically flawed. I have included only those items that can be disproven logically or that are in direct conflict with the Bible. I have intentionally excluded anything that falls into the realm of religious interpretation (such as trinity, afterlife, etc). Things like this are logically and intrinsically unknowable, so one opinion is as good as another.

    If you would like to add to my list, please do so.

    "We wouldn't know the truth" about...

    Birthdays – Their stand on birthdays does not make sense. The fact that something bad happened at someone’s birthday party does not constitute a ban on their celebration. There is no biblical reason to avoid birthdays. The argument that they give honor to an individual can be equally applied to anniversary parties, which are allowed. This is inconsistent.

    Christianisation of pagan observances – The society has said that it is wrong for Christianity of adopt (even with modifications) an observance that has a pagan origin. Thus, Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas, Thanksgiving, Valentine’s, New Year’s, Halloween, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc. We do not tip our hats, make toasts, or throw rice at a wedding. What are the flaws in this reasoning?

    1. The primary ritual of Christianity is communion (our variation is the memorial). This ritual of becoming one with your God by eating his flesh and drinking his blood, dates back thousands of years, originating with nature-based worship, where tribes had animal totems. It is probably the clearest example of pagan religion that we have, with the consumption of the God being thinly disguised as bread and wine. Jesus himself adopted and Christianized this observance. Baptism also originated as a non-Christian religious ritual. So, can we still say that something is wrong, simply because it originated in paganism?

    2. Pagan origins can be found in virtually everything, from the calendar to marriage customs. It is not feasible to eliminate all traces of paganism. Therefore, we simply live with them. If paganism is wrong, isn’t it always wrong? If the principle is correct, shouldn’t it be consistently applied?

    3. The Bible specifically states that we should not judge another person based on their celebration of a festival (xxxxx). The Bible specifically states every person is free to make up his own mind as to the sacredness of various days. (Rom 14:4-8)

    Here is an interesting and rather balanced view:

    “So the Christian needs to be primarily concerned about what? Not what a certain symbol or design possibly meant thousands of years ago or how it might be thought of on the otherside of the world, but what it means now to most people where he lives. … With so many different designs having been used in false worship, if a person went to the trouble and took the time he might find an undesirable connection with almost every design he sees around him. But why do that? Would it not be needlessly upsetting? And is that the best use of one’s time and attention?” - Awake 12/22/76 p14

    1914 – The starting point of the calculation (607) is wrong. Also, if the length of a prophetic year is 360 years (an arbitrary and suspect assumption), then why is the product (360 x 7 = 2520), applied back to calendar years? Shouldn’t we count 2,520 prophetic years (907,200 days) from 607, which lands us around 1877? And, what makes the Society think that this particular Bible passage is referring to the time of the end? Most Bible scholars point to its fulfilment prior to the first century.

    Most of the society’s chronological blunders have arisen from childish applications of numerology. Thankfully, most of them have been abandoned, but 1914 remains, at least for the moment.

    144,000 is a literal number – All of the numbers in Revelation are symbolic – 3, 7, 10, 12, etc. The 24 elders are symbolic of the anointed. The two prophets are symbolic. When a number like 144,000 comes along with its obviously symbolic connotations (12x12x10x10x10), why is it suddenly literal?

    Full number of anointed being sealed in 1935 – I can’t even refute this, because there is no backing for it. It sprung fully formed out of nowhere. I think that when the organization got too big to fit into the 144,000, they had to invent a cut off, so they did.

    Authenticity of the anointed remnant – If the full number of anointed was filled in 1935, then the vast majority of those who are now numbered among them are partaking unworthily. Therefore, the most important group in the world is just a bunch of fakes. Obviously, the doctrine needs an overhaul.

    Signs of the time of the end – It can be argued that the twentieth century has seen unique situations regarding war and crime. However, we are living in the most pestilence free time period of human history, as attested by the increase in life expectancy. Also, seismic activity has not been any greater in this century than in times past. In fact, when you consider all forms of death (disease, war, famine) that the bible foretells, you will find that in aggregate, we see less today than in times past. We have seen population explosion in the last hundred years, which is a function of a reduction in the causes of death.

    Grace – Most religions have adopted the concept of grace. It basically states that there is nothing that you can do to gain salvation. It is a free gift from God. Yet, the society insists on works as being necessary.

    Shunning – The Bible identifies several sins for which an unrepentant person should be shunned. However, the 1989 Watchtower specifically states that a person can be disfellowshipped for disagreeing with doctrines that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. It specifically lists the 1914 doctrine. As well, it has recently been used as a tool to silence persons who are speaking out in defence of abuse victims. This is wrong. It is not according to the Bible.

    Jesus presence/coming – If Jesus is present, then he must have already come. If his coming is still future, then he is not present. He cannot be present, while his coming is future. That’s what the words mean.

    The “truth” – If you say one thing, then say the opposite, then at lease one of those statements must be wrong. You cannot speak the “truth’, change your mind, and still have the “truth”. That is impossible.

    Jesus is not our mediator – The society teaches that Jesus is the mediator between God and the anointed only. He is not our mediator. Apparently, we don’t need one. This is an eletist and unscriptural doctrine.

    The Bible wasn’t written for us – The society teaches that the Bible was written for the anointed, not for us. This is also an unscriptural and elitist doctrine. It is offensive.

    Length of a creative day – For decades, the society taught that creative days were 6,000 years in length. That is how they arrived at the 1975 debacle. It is now being quietly abandoned, but has not been officially changed.

    Blood policies – The current blood policy is inconsistent. If blood is to be avoided, then how can we accept things made out of blood? Storing and usage of your own blood should be allowed. It shows ultimate respect for God’s gift of life and blood. Forbidding this practice is stupid, inconsistent, and potentially fatal.

    Restricted social life – Throughout my life, I was forbidden to participate in sports, dances, and just about everything that normal kids did. I was not the exception. This policy is actually written in the original school brochure. I believe it was instituted for the sole purpose of isolating Witness kids so that they would have no place to go but the organization. This is wrong, selfish, and underhanded.

    Conclusion

    If you take the total teaching of the Society, and deduct the following things:

    - teachings that have been changed, and so must have been wrong in the past

    - teachings that have logical flaws

    - teachings that contradict the Bible

    You will be left with a small list of religious doctrines that are intangible in nature. This includes things like the nature of God, the condition of the dead, and so forth. This small remainder leaves very little that is unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Once you strip away the past and present errors, there is not much left.

    So, what have they really done for us?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    Hey RunningMan,for WBTS todays truth is tommorows old light....True today,a lie tommorow....All directly from God..LOL!...OUTLAW

  • free will
    free will

    thanks for your thoughts. i couldn't agree more.

  • onacruse
    onacruse

    RunningMan, great list. It's amazing, when you put all the broken pieces on one tabletop, how many shards there are!

    One question:

    the 1989 Watchtower specifically states that a person can be disfellowshipped for disagreeing with doctrines that are unique to Jehovah’s Witnesses. It specifically lists the 1914 doctrine.

    I did a search, and couldn't find that. Do you happen to have the ref?

    Thanks!

    Craig

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Just a relatively minor point, RunningMan - the WTS teaches that creative days are 7,000 years long, not 6,000. The idea was that the last 1,000 years of this creative day would be the millennial rule of Christ over the earth and earth's return to a paradise, so that at the end of the millennium God's "day of rest" could be pronounced "GOOD" as were the previous six crative days. Then the eighth creative day would begin, starting with a Jubilee of 1,000 years because it was the 50th such 1,000 year long "mini-day".

    WTS says:

    Man was created October, 4026 BCE

    Man is therefore 6,000 years old in 1975 CE

    Armageddon begins any minute now - as soon as we figure out how long Adam was alone in the Garden of Eden. (As Gary Bussleman has pointed out, the "Aid" book did state that Eve was the same age as Adam, but that was before Franz assumed room temperature and new light emanted from his corpse.) We may call this "brief" period of time "X".

    The Millennium begins as soon as Armageddon is over.

    At the end of the Millennium, (circa 2975 + "X" years) Satan is released for one last go at mankind.

    (Satan, the Chief of Wickedness, gets a second chance that not all humans get)

    Finally Satan is eternally destroyed, the Seventh Creative Day ends, and Jehovah says, "Boy, that was GOOD. What will we fuck with next?"

    Soon the WTS will receive the revelation that X = infinity.

  • wednesday
    wednesday

    I have heard this before, but many religions teach things similar to jws. Many people have read the book of revelation.

    I totally agree with all points presented, esp. the birthday thing. It just seems they HAVE to find SOMETHING wrong with EVERYTHING.

    weds

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    One little point to add to the birthday section. Job and his family celebrated birthdays. Check it out. Ask a Jdub to read Job 3:1 and tell you what "his day" means. They will have to tell you that it means the day of his birth. Then have them read Job 1:4. I wish someone had shown me that when I was a witness.

    TimB

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Nathan: Thanks for the catch. It was just a typo.

    Onacruise: I will post the reference as soon as I get near my volumes again.

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    Onacruise, here's a list from 1986:

    WATCHTOWER, April 1, 1986, pages 30 & 31, "Questions From Readers"

    (...)

    "Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?

    That the great issue before humankind is the rightfulness of Jehovah's sovereignty, which is why he has allowed wickedness so long. (Ezekiel 25:17)

    That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28)

    That there is a "faithful and discreet slave" upon earth today 'entrusted with all of Jesus' earthly interests,' which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47)

    That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ's foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15-12:10)

    That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3)

    That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21)

    That it will be followed by Christ's Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise.

    That the first to enjoy it will be the present "great crowd" of Jesus' "other sheep."-John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4.

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan

    Thanks for the article, Nathan. That was the quote I was referring to.

    Also, in the section "Christianization of Pagan Observances", I made reference to a scripture regarding festivals. I forgot to replace my xxxx's with the actual citation. It should be Colossians 2:16.

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