USA- Liberator?

by proplog2 33 Replies latest social current

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    cRaZy:

    You completely miss the point. Your argument is poorly constructed.

    SINCE I don't like the USA as the only "super power" THEREFORE I must prefer the only other possibility Russia or China as the only "super power".

    I know you can see the obvious error here but I'm going to point it out because people who make these kinds of statements don't see the obvious.

    The obvious is I would prefer a body like the UN working out a consensus decision through democratic maneuvering. It takes longer but it assures a more civil world.

    Do you believe the United States has the right to be dictator?

  • Gerard
    Gerard

    Iraqis seem to like it...

  • proplog2
    proplog2

    Sara:

    Teenyuk is correct in referring to your post as "wit". It certainly doesn't qualify as a rebuttal.

    Your post, although funny, is an effort to cover up your inability or unwillingness to respond appropriately to my position. It is simply a substitute for relevant evidence.

  • dolphman
    dolphman
    The obvious is I would prefer a body like the UN working out a consensus decision through democratic maneuvering. It takes longer but it assures a more civil world.

    Oh Jeez, et's not forget how effective the UN is.

    Do you know who's been primarily responsible for enforcing UN resolutions? THE USA. Without the USA, the UN is nothing.

    Unfortunately for the UN, they have a bad habit of not having the guts to enforce their own resolutions. So until they get their heads out of their @$$'s, it looks like the US has to do it's own dirty work.

    Here's the dilemna the US faces in the Middle East. We could have gone into Iran and gave them democracy. But of course, if we such a thing, we're immediantly considered to be Imperialist, colonialist, oil-hungry tycoons. We put the Shah into power and supported Saddam simply because the only choice we had at stopping the flow of Islamic Fundamentalism was to choose the lesser of two evils. Liberals whine about this process every step of the way, yet have no relevant solution to the problem. Unless you enjoy Islamic Fundamentalism, your left with few choices in the Middle East.

    It would help if you understood the subtle nuances of Mid East politics before you came to such conclusions...

  • Francois
    Francois

    Proplog, your analysis is a mile wide and a tenth of an inch deep. You oversimplify by several orders of magnitude.

    In which country on this planet would you rather be a citizen of? Have you ever been outside of the US? Where?

    In many cases, our choice of who to support politically consists in chosing the least of several evils, and you should know that. We have supported not only the Shah, but we supported Ferdinand Marcos, Manuel Noriega, Nuygen Cao Chi, and other unsavory characters. They just happened to be the most savory at the moment. We supported Saddam Hussein at first because he was fighting a war with Iran, one of the great centers of state-supported terrorism.

    Frankly I think you are unequipped and unprepared to debate this issue. You seem either to be uninformed or just plain naive. I don't mean to be dismissive, and I've agreed with other positions of yours in the past. However, this time I just can't support you on this one.

    francois

  • Realist
    Realist

    francois,

    wait a second....if you could choose between pinochet and allende whom would you choose? between mossadeq and the shah, between the khmer rouge or the vietnamese?

    the US chose the people according to what fits their interests not according to human rights issues.

  • dolphman
    dolphman

    And I believe it's the US interest and the interest of reasonable people everywhere to stop the spread of Islamic Fundamentalism. Not a bad interest to have.

  • Realist
    Realist

    dophman,

    i 100% agree. but you should not forget what the reasons are for fundamentalism (of any sort) to grow. its poverty, opression and hopelessness.

    the western world is largely responsible for the mess in the middle east. if we supported them economically there would be no apprechiable fundamentalism.

  • Sara Annie
    Sara Annie
    Your post, although funny, is an effort to cover up your inability or unwillingness to respond appropriately to my position. It is simply a substitute for relevant evidence.

    My response wasn't intended as a rebuttal. I disagree that the book of Revelation has any significance as a prophetic tool whatsoever, and therefore could hardly go delving into finding "relevant evidence" to support or disprove your position with that text as a basis for argument. I wasn't displaying an inability to respond "appropriately", I apologize if I offended or upset you, that was not at all my intention.

    It was simply a light hearted, well-intentioned attempt to show that assignation of meaning is hardly a phenomenon unique to the Bible. I wonder if, in ancient times, attempts to glean meaning from biblical text were perceived to be just as ridiculous as my post was. In the last 40 years, a gigantic corporate religious empire has been created (and is thriving) around the works of a third rate science fiction writer. Today, the Scientologists are a generally thought of as a giant pack of whackos, but in two thousand years they could very well be seen as a legitimate, mainstream religion. Who knows?

  • Francois
    Francois

    Realist, I deny that your question about pinochet and allende; mossadeq and the shah; the khmer rouge or the vietnamese has any bearing on the topic since it has already been stipulated that the US has supported unsavory characters; although I don't believe we in any way supported Pol Pot. And we are directly responsible for Pinochet and the Shah. Right now, we have to walk the razor's edge with Iran in order to deal effectively with Syria. In ten years the situation might look entirely different. But engaging, as you do, in retroactive prophecy constitutes no great claim to intellectual ascendency, it merely demonstrates a firm grasp on the obvious.

    The greatest threat to world peace, I personally believe, is Islamic Fundamentalism. Expand that to include fanatical fundamentalism of whatever philosophy and you've got the picture. However I believe that the fanatic Islamist is the most dangerous, and carefully selecting which rocks to step on while negotiating that stream is a task of Augean proportions given the labile behavior of the Arab world in general. What to do, what to do.

    Who would you rather have deal with the problems in the middel east, problems caused in large measure by some British bureaucrat with a pencil and a map creating countries entire without regard to tribalism, or any other normal consideration of nation formation? Too bad it's too late to erase all those phony lines that created national "boundaries" after the fall of the Ottoman Empire.

    Now. In what country would you rather live than the United States?

    francois

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