Jesus or Judas:Will the real terrorist please stand up?

by Valis 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Double Edge

  Thanks Cruzenheart for posting the article...I too found it facinating.

  Instead of betraying Jesus, they say he handed him over to authorities with Jesus' consent, setting into motion the chain of events needed to fulfill what many Christians regard as scriptural prophecies of salvation through Jesus' crucifixion

  I disagree that it was with Jesus' consent.... it seems to me a true betrayal. I do believe that Jesus knew that the scriptural prophecies would be fulfilled, however, I think he was a Master (excuse the pun) at understanding ones character. This is evidenced in those He selected to be his apostles, including Judas who was flawed to be duped for whatever reason. Everyone had their free-will intact even if they were instruments in fulfilling prophecy... Jesus knew them like a book, and the rest is history.

  Dr. Daryl Schmidt of Texas Christian University has another theory: Judas never existed.

  Where do I begin... I don't, not enough time.... only to say what a lame theory. 'Judas never existed'. Well, let's pick and choose. Maybe Peter didn't exist either, or James, or John... or how about even JESUS.... that's it, He never existed ... or wait, then there wouldn't be a Texas Christian University.... never mind.
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  cellomould

  good topic Valis!

  Did you all know that in 1 Corinthians, when Paul describes the resurrection...he says that Jesus appeared to 'the twelve' and many others.

  Judas was one of these twelve?

  I would have to check my facts, but I believe that the death of Judas after the betrayal of Jesus (the placement of which leads us to believe Judas died before Jesus died) only appears in two of the Gospels.

  Anyhow, who were the twelve, if Judas was already dead?

  And about the topic of terrorism, I have read a similar opinion...that Jesus was planning some kind of insurrection backed by a miracle. Which may explain the comment 'just two swords are necessary'.

  cell[:o)]mould
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  Valis

  Hey Nina thanks for posting it for me...you must have a subscription..

  I think this kind of discussion of biblical events is much more interesting than talking about prenoachian apocalyptic geology records...*LOL*

  Judas raises the question of where to draw the line between faith and fanaticism

  I think this is a very telling line regardless of either premise and at least one magazine corporation to take this to heart, seeing as they sell their own people out all the time to further their own version of bible babble.

  Sincerely,

  District Overbeer
• 

  Big Tex

  If you want to sign in to the Dallas Morning News website just put your email address and the password is 1950YB (cap letters).
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  peacefulpete

  There is a Jesus Mysteries discussion at Yahoo that entertains and debates any and all theories about a historical Jesus. The matter is likey to forever stir debate as the NT has passed thru too many editors and political revision to ever formulate a precise reconstruction of it's developement. There are very powerful reasons to believe that the Jesus group was a failed Zealot movement. The very names chosen for the charactors do seem to to be clues. (Simon the Zealot, Sons of Rage/thunder,)The "cleasing" of the Temple is if historical a major event linking Jesus to the Zealots. They sought to do this very thing but failed due to the thousands of Jewish Temple guards and the perrenial Roman army of 500+ stationed there. It is however much more likely that the stories are composites of quasi historical accounts of various Jewish liberation leaders, sages, and pagan dying son of god stories. These stories merged and became a legend of it's own. Then comes the 3-400 year process of selecting and editing of these legends to meet the needs of the Roman chuch. This was tricky as many passions were attatched to contradictory aspects of the legend, compromises were made and subtle rewording was required to unify a majority of Jesus cultists. Voila Christianity!
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  gumby

  Peacefulpete,

  Could you provide the link to the yahoo debate?

  Gumby
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  peacefulpete

  Gumby.....I can't do that sort of thing with my primative Webtv. Sorry, but a word search "Yahoo groups Jeasus mysteries" gets you there. Then you will need to join to post. but you can read I believe without subscribing.
• 

  gumby

  Thanks peacefulpete,

  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheJesusMysteries/

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  TheJesusMysteries · The Jesus Mysteries [ Join This Group! ]

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  (Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!) Description Category: Gnosticism A discussion of the book "The Jesus Mysteries: Was the 'Original Jesus' a Pagan God?" by Timothy Freke and Peter Gandy; and the idea that Jesus did or did not really exist. This is a discussion group with the main restriction being that your posts should conform to the rules of civilized conversation. Don't be rude. We discuss not only the historical facts or lack there of. We also look at implications and conclusions beyond the bare facts. Personal faith or unbelief, unsupported opinion and conclusions are welcome and encouraged. However please limit excessive “faith” posts unrelated to the subject.
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  manon

  Ok, I'm back to finish the theory/story/according to the way I learned it.

  The "cleansing" of the temple was a major event in that this was the first time the Jesus had acted out aggressively. This was also suppose to be the beginning of the massive insurrection between the zealots(resistance) and the corrupt establishment and military occupation.

  But what came out of this was Jesus choice or his change of heart to opt for martyrdom instead of rebellion. Judas resisted this idea but the choice had already been made. So each of the disciples were given a task to carry out and Judas task was to turn Jesus over to the proper authorities. So the theory here is that there was no betrayl but a conscience choice by all. This act was supposedly done lovelingly and with Jesus blessing so Judas went along and played his part. The role of the betrayer.

  Jesus went on trial and was convicted of sedition and was crucified as an enemy of the state. He was punished as a poltical person/prisoner.

  Peters task was to build and become the head of the church once Jesus was gone. The other disciples would spread around the region and bring the news. Enter Saul <aka> Paul he now drops the sword of the zealot and become a holyman the greatest advocate and the 1st christian on behalf of Jesus. He takes his message directly to Rome and the seeds of christianity are planted. Jesus now becomes the christ.

  This is not gospel this is theory and very old theory.
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  ThiChi

  This theory was in a movie........Judas was with a resistence movement against Rome and tried to force Jesus’ hand to bring the kingdom of God by delivering him up.