Faith Requires a lot of Disbelief

by Satanus 14 Replies latest jw friends

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  Satanus

  While people w faith generally feel superior to people without, their faith requires them to disbelieve much, as well. For instance:

  1. The total lack of provable existence of a bible god leads to the conclusion that there is not a bible god. Avoiding this conclusion requires firm disbelief.

  2. Internal bible conflicts require disbelief that plain bible statements actually meant what they said.

  3. Jw's must disbelieve hundreds, perhaps thousands of wt pronouncements that turned out to be totally false.

  4. Jw's must disbelieve the logical conclusion of the faults in their org, including the faults of individuals.

  It takes a lot of effort to keep at bay multiple disconfirmations. While certain points are submitted as faith supporting evidence, their number has been drastically reduced as knowledge and understanding has increased during the last two centuries. Disconfirmations outwiegh and outnumber socalled evidences for faith.

  Feel free to add to the list above, or start a faith support list.

  SS
• 

  ThiChi

  "Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, though not seen."

  I am going from memory here, is that correct? Was this Paul’s words, or a Watchtower troof-ism? Great God, its all starting to fade away........................
• 

  Satanus

  Thichi

  Nothing like a look in the rearview mirror to show how far we've come, eh?

  SS
• 

  onacruse

  SS:

  their faith requires them to disbelieve much

  ThiChi's quote of Heb 11:1 is very much to the point here. Very few English-only-reading Christians know that the same Greek word (pistos) is translated to "faith" and "belief." In the NT, these two English words mean exactly the same thing! And "faith," with all its implications of mystical personal revelatory conviction, is just what a Christian is stuck with: "the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld."

  Translate: I can't prove it, but I'm sure it's true. If I could prove it, then it's not faith, it's reality.

  It's primarily the Aristotlean under-pinnings of Western civilization that compels Christians to assure themselves that "faith" produces a reasonable and demonstrable "belief"; that "reason" must go hand-in-hand with "faith." In fact, even by NT definition, faith and reason are disparate functions.

  Craig
• 

  refiners fire

  SS. This is, as usual, a most interesting way that you have put things. Ive been thinking upon this very subject over the past couple weeks, contemplating the invisible 1914 Enthronement, the Invisible 1914 War in Heaven, the Figurative 1260 days in Sackcloth, the invisible 1918 Ressurection, and The 1919 Figurative "release" from bondage. These are central pillars of the dub construct, yet there isnt a skerrick off good evidence for believing any of it actually happened.

  And all these significant events directed and orchestrated by the supreme, all powerfull entity of the Universe.
• 

  Satanus

  Refiner

  All that invisible proof of wt authenticity! Holey cheeses, i used to believe that.

  SS
• 

  garybuss

  
  
  Hi SS,
  
  Thanks for the thread. I had convinced myself a while back that my faith was just the result of my suspending my own disbelief. If my faith was just belief without proof, and I think it was, then in addition to suspending my own disbelief, I had to deny contradictory evidence.
  
  My faith was not my decision . . . my suspending my disbelief was the decision. My faith was the result.
  
  All of it has been interesting. I have made so many mistakes in the past that a rational analysis would indicate that I have a natural ability toward the irrational. A realistic appraisal shows that I have been very unrealistic in many ways.
  
  Done over, I would defer and temper so much.
  
  
  
  
  
  
• 

  Satanus

  Garry

  a rational analysis would indicate that I have a natural ability toward the irrational. A realistic appraisal shows that I have been very unrealistic in many ways.

  Love ya, man Maybe we become more observant of ourselves, when we get older.

  SS
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  greven

  I agree with your points BUT :

  What counts too is that JW's are being kept isolated and ignorant. For example inconsistencies in the Bible: If you look this up in the reasoning book you will find a rebuttal to a householder's argument: "there are inconsistencies in the bible". The rebuttal is: "nobody has ever shown me one". Which is right on target.

  The WTS never informs people of those inconsistencies. It never points out that 607 has no archeological basis unlike 587. It never shows problems or conflicts. By providing only one view while forbidding to look at other views makes it very easy to believe. The problems start when someone starts pointing them out. Such a person is quickly DF'ed to shut him up.

  This is what bothered me: only one view, no debate, no asking questions outside the box, that made me question their integrity and honesty.

  Greven
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  JT

  great post SS love it