Not another MEMORIAL thread!! (...But this one has pictures!)
by Gamaliel 16 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Gamaliel
I thought this letter was interesting because it shows how little has changed. The letter even sounds like the same style the service department still uses today. And it's from 1922, not so long before the 1935 change. Back then they thought that the last call for memorial drinks was 1881.
Some other oddities in the JW history books is that they once thought the 144,000 did not have Christ as the mediator, because they were part of the "Christ", and were mediating for the great crowd, who were also going to heaven according to Russell. It's not surprising that they still aren't clear on explaining the mediator doctrine.
Gamaliel
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refiners fire
No pictures., Very disappointing.
..."the last call for memorial drinks was 1881"....
The old "Shut door theology", the Saints are finally "Sealed" and the number set. The door of opportunity for salvation closed. The Adventists did it too, later they reopened it to make room for the new hordes of believers.
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Jourles
Ooops. Gamaliel, you need to upload your pics to a photo hosting provider and then link to them.
As a side note, if these letters are from the WTS on their letterhead, would you mind if I put them up on my new gallery?
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Gamaliel
refiner's,
I remember reading about how Ellen G White (Millerite) once wanted a lot of her old books returned so that early prophecies could be removed/restated with less noise. I don't know if that story is even true. I understand that the WTS once felt embarrassed about a few of Russell's old works and asked for "donations" which Arthur Worsely (at Bethel) was asked to burn as the donations came in. I never got up the nerve to ask Arthur if it was true (because I didn't want to bring up the subject of fire at Bethel in the middle of a "witch hunt") The old brother died shortly after I left. Does anyone else know the story?
Ellen and her husband definitely caused a commotion they had a hard time explaining when they first reprinted her prophecies with the "closed door" prophecies missing. I get the feeling the 7DA's have just recently become less worried about them, because they seem to be prepared to show almost all of her extant prophecies now (with perhaps a bit of editing) -- even those old embarrassing ones. It's something I plan to look into when I get a chance.
Gamaliel
Sorry about the delay in getting the pictures up. The picture link wording in the dialog box makes it look like we could now "load" pictures so I tried it.
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Gamaliel
Jourles,
The pictures were posted on the Internet when someone was trying to sell them. I am not the owner. I wrote the owner and asked if I could pay for a copy, but he never answered.
I can't even vouch for their authenticity, except that there is nothing in them that contradicts what we know about their beliefs at the time. It was the perfectly normal and expected answer to the question of whether new ones were still being called.
Gamaliel
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Jourles
So it would be OK to put this up then?
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Gamaliel
Since this thread was supposed to be about the memorial, I'll add my 2 cents. There have already been enough comments that the memorial makes no sense doctrinally, biblically or rationally. It's almost like JWs heard Jesus say, "Keep on doing something different from this, in mockery of me." Even if there were supposed to be two classes, where on earth does one class get the idea that the other class shouldn't partake?
I'm thinking, though, that the screwed-up logic of an ancient ceremony is part of the appeal. You are supposed to sit in some ceremonial stupor and let logic drift away. Your mind should be so numbed by now that you listen and believe a story that you would otherwise believe is crazy if you hadn't been told "often" that this is all good and wonderful. You are reminded by the speaker that the ceremony has its most ancient roots in a 3,500 year old practice by the Jews of butchering a little lamb and splattering blood around the front door of their house. For them, it was a yearly reminder of when Jehovah their God, freed their tribe from Egypt by bringing plagues of locusts and hail and gnats and frogs and boils and blood -- oh my! Finally he drowned all the kings horses and all the kings men somewhere near the modern-day Suez canal between Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Then, only 1,500 years later, Mary had a little Lamb [of God, that takes away the sin of the world]. We're vaguely listening as we hear that the first ceremony by Jesus might have been attended by Judas, who was unworthy. Corinthians is read where Paul talks about a class of people who come to the memorial disrespectfully, and they are unworthy, eating and drinking judgment unto themselves. And then the speaker subtly tries to remind us that JWs believe we're all unworthy and we won't be partaking unless we really, really really know within ourselves that we want to be with Christ in heaven. And even then, true JWs remember that we're probably wrong because Jesus finished choosing early in the last century -- and how many cases of bad judgment do we think that Jesus or the Holy Spirit made up until 1881, or 1918, or 1935?
Gamaliel
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refiners fire
Gam:
There is an excellent book published by the adventist church and available at their bookstores called " Ellen G White and her critics". By Francis Nichol. An Adventist apologist. 700 pages dealing with all of the major false prophecy and plagiarism accusations levelled at the church.Ellen G Whites "Shut door" statements included. The shut door is examined extensively in the book. It is a comprehensive grounding in the churches history and well worth reading. For some reasin the Adventists have chosen not to sweep things under the carpet the same as the dubs, they are examined and explained away. Of course, whether you believe the explanations is another matter. There is also another excellent book called "1844 and the rise of sabbatarian adventism" in their bookshops that reproduces many old speeches and magazine articles from the 1800s. Its the equivalent of the dubs publishing a book to be sold in the congregations that contains all the old WT articles from the 1880s relevant to the 1874/1878/ 1881 and 1914 dates. Unthinkable for the dubs. There is a lot more talk and public debate in the SDAs, I think. This has led to a lot of splintering in the church, little splinter groups everywhere.
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Gamaliel
Jourles,
It's fine by me if you want to post it... I just did. I don't know the rules on this, and I think that anyone who wants to use it for anything can think of it as their own. Just treat it as if it was public domain, found on the web, and you shouldn't have to remove it unless an owner or copyright holder makes a specific request.
Gamaliel
