by Simon 865 Replies latest social current
And, if the TRUTH be known, people would be very angry and most would be scared.
When the time is right (whatever time that is) I am sure that the power people of the world which are trying to force this "one world order" on everybody, will produce and use WMDs and in return, the free people will give up all remaining freedoms for a fictitious promise of security and protection.........
There are powers beyond the human imagination manipulating mankind into.......?
KIM
i love how bush is, when convenient, painted as a complete dunce with half a brain.....but when its convenient, he surely couldnt have been dumb enough to think those reports were credible. which is it? is he a mastermind that pulled the wool over everyones eyes? or is he the idiot that didnt think about the criticism that would no doubt follow after the u.s. failed to find what he knew full well wasnt there? you cant have it both ways.
Bush is the evil twin brother of Forest Gump.
dubla,
the "real experts"? you mean, anyone disagreeing with the original "expert" opinions can be the only "real experts"? um, okay.
if i remember correctly the first guys were no specialists on fermenters for bioweapons.
how did they count them? um, 1, 2, 3, 4, etc..........it takes some time to destroy weapons, and they were in the process of doing that when they left in 1998. part of the original inventory (as stated on the '95 u.n. report you referred to) was iraqs ADMITTED stockpiles that had yet to be inspected....lets not forget that (and ive maintained that its common sense that the actual numbers would be considerably higher than the admitted numbers)......thus the "unaccounted for" weaopns.
so the iraqis had layed down the weapons infront of the inspectors ...the inspectors counted them and then watched as the iraqies carried them away to hide them again? hmmmm
if youre referring to scott ritter (your first article), i think we can all agree that his allegations havent been backed by anything solid.
my point was mainly that the inspection teams and inspections were not done in a political vacuum. there were things going on behind the scenes of which we don't know the slightest thing of.
um, yeah, that surely looks like it was the u.s. who wanted to keep things brewing, and doesnt at all show any lack of cooperation from saddam on any of the inspections issues.
again we do not know what the inspection teams demanded which might or might not have been backed by the UN resolutions. spy activity and inspecting sights that were not WMD sights might very well have given iraq the right to not fully cooperate with the teams.
i find it also very likely that such incidences were provoked by the inspection teams. i can just restate that imo the US has not more credability than iraq.
well then, its your opinion that saddam had every right to keep inspectors out of his country.....again, you are on an island with this one, compared to the majority of the world.
probably. still i don't see why iraq is not allowed to have WMDs while the US, israel, china, pakistan, india, france and britain with their anything but spotless histories have a right to have them.
i said specifically that it wasnt a smoking gun, did you miss that? the point i was making is that any parts of any centrifuges should have been declared somewhere in that 13,000 page report. any non-declaration constitutes non-compliance, as im sure you know. why should they lie about anything? after all, they didnt have anything to hide, right?
i know you stated this is not a smoking gun. and i can just repeat that i think we have to wait to see what is true about this story before we continue to debate the implications.
why is north korea risking it? why did hussein do any of the irrational things he did? hmmm, the word madman pops back to mind, but weve already been down that path.
because NK is not an easy and equally profitable target. the US can hardly afford a war that would cause heavy losses. this is obvious when you look how carefully bush is handling this issue compared to the method he used with iraq.
what irrational things by the way? hussein had the same "irrational" goal (occupy disputed territories) that most other states have. including the US, israel, russia, germany (in the past) france, britain etc.
your mind-reading ability is nothing short of astounding.
i can just say you are a sweet innocent kid if you really think bush cares about africa.
i think if bush was wrong, he didnt know it. i believe that bush, along with every country in the world, truly believed saddam still had wmd. i love how bush is, when convenient, painted as a complete dunce with half a brain.....but when its convenient, he surely couldnt have been dumb enough to think those reports were credible. which is it? is he a mastermind that pulled the wool over everyones eyes? or is he the idiot that didnt think about the criticism that would no doubt follow after the u.s. failed to find what he knew full well wasnt there? you cant have it both ways.
i have not reached a conclusion whether bush is a helpless braindead puppet or an active part of the show (considering the influence of his family the latter seems more reasonable). the only thing that is obvious to anyone not exposed to intensive brainwashing is that the guy is not telling the truth.
my initials, a.a......."double a", shortened to dubla.
ahhh! nice to meet you a.a!
realist-
ill try to make this quick, as i think for all intents and purposes we are getting nowhere.
if i remember correctly the first guys were no specialists on fermenters for bioweapons.
id love to see links to that affect, this is the first time ive heard of it.
so the iraqis had layed down the weapons infront of the inspectors ...the inspectors counted them and then watched as the iraqies carried them away to hide them again? hmmmm
you missed a major part of my statement, seemingly even as you reposted it....curious, but ill try to help you out:
part of the original inventory (as stated on the '95 u.n. report you referred to) was iraqs ADMITTED stockpiles that had yet to be inspected....lets not forget that (and ive maintained that its common sense that the actual numbers would be considerably higher than the admitted numbers)......
ill try to explain in smaller words. iraq, at the time, admitted to having specific quantities in their wmd stockpiles. these quantities are on the u.n. report i supplied. not all of these stockpiles had been inspected (and counted) as of '98, mainly, id guess, because of non-cooperation by iraq. its pretty simple, but im sure youll just claim the numbers are all a big lie, which, once again, you have no credible backing for.
still i don't see why iraq is not allowed to have WMDs while the US......
an entire seperate issue, which has nothing to do with this thread.
what irrational things by the way?
must i go back and show you where YOU stated you didnt understand why saddam was irrational about kuwait?
i can just say you are a sweet innocent kid if you really think bush cares about africa.
i didnt say i thought he did, i just dont think (regardless of political implications) you can sit here and tell me what any human being feels or doesnt feel in their heart about someone elses suffering. you can paint bush as a person with no feelings for anyone but himself and his own agenda, but it wont make it so. we arent mind readers, and i dont personally claim to be one.
aa
aa,
ill try to make this quick, as i think for all intents and purposes we are getting nowhere.
i agree...and i believe i stated something similar previously.
id love to see links to that affect, this is the first time ive heard of it.its somewhere in this monster thread. imo its not worth the effort of digging it up.
you missed a major part of my statement, seemingly even as you reposted it....curious, but ill try to help you out:
i did not miss that part. i just found your counting explanation kind of weird.
its pretty simple, but im sure youll just claim the numbers are all a big lie, which, once again, you have no credible backing for.
i don't think i claimed the numbers from the UN report are faked.
must i go back and show you where YOU stated you didnt understand why saddam was irrational about kuwait?
we couldn't reach a conclusion back than so there is no point in bringing it up again.
i didnt say i thought he did, i just dont think (regardless of political implications) you can sit here and tell me what any human being feels or doesnt feel in their heart about someone elses suffering. you can paint bush as a person with no feelings for anyone but himself and his own agenda, but it wont make it so. we arent mind readers, and i dont personally claim to be one.
well if something smells like a rat, lies like a rat and acts like a rat than its a pretty good guess that it is a rat.
realist-
i did not miss that part. i just found your counting explanation kind of weird.
hmmm, weird that we took inventory of the weapons we actually found? i was simply stating that part of the numbers blix was going off of was known inventories from when inspectors were actually there to take them. and as far as your earlier comment, i wouldnt put it past iraq to move weapons (between 1998 and 2003) that had already been inventoried. none of their antics would surprise me.
i don't think i claimed the numbers from the UN report are faked.
youve alluded all along that you arent sold on their accuracy..........i dont see much of a difference.
aa
realist-
if i remember correctly the first guys were no specialists on fermenters for bioweapons.
as i suspected, this was just another attempt to paint an untrue picture. i found the article you posted on this thread regarding the mobile labs, and i found that the majority of experts that have examined them do indeed believe they were used for bioweapons, as ive been saying all along (and i cant find any statement that claims the original experts werent "specialists on fermenters for bioweapons"). ill give you a quick recap of your article....lets start with the title:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/14/50669/769916/post.ashx#769916
notice the word "some"? that suggests a minority right off the bat.
In all, at least three teams of Western experts have now examined the trailers and evidence from them. While the first two groups to see the trailers were largely convinced that the vehicles were intended for the purpose of making germ agents, the third group of more senior analysts divided sharply over the function of the trailers, with several members expressing strong skepticism, some of the dissenters said.
ill break down this paragraph for you. three total teams have examined the trailers. the first two teams concluded they were solely biolabs. the third team was DIVIDED, meaning even half (or more) of the "senior analysts" also concluded the trailers were intended for germ agents. notice that only "several members" expressed skepticism? "several" normally means three, so in this instance, out of all the "experts" that examined the trucks, THREE whole people were skeptical! WOW....i dont know about you, but three skeptics is proof positive to me that these trucks were simple bakeries.
heres another tidbit i found interesting (bold/italic mine):
"I have no great confidence that it's a fermenter," a senior analyst with long experience in unconventional arms said of a tank for multiplying seed germs into lethal swarms. The government's public report, he added, "was a rushed job and looks political." This analyst had not seen the trailers himself, but reviewed evidence from them.
well, this guy has "no great confidence that its a fermenter", but hasnt even looked at the truck first hand! again, rock solid proof in my mind, i dont need anything further.
A senior administration official conceded that "some analysts give the hydrogen claim more credence." But he asserted that the majority still linked the Iraqi trailers to germ weapons.
as ive said all along, its a very small minority that believe otherwise, and there will be a debate on any wmd issue, even if 100,000 tons of mustard gas are found (there will ALWAYS be "skeptics").
He added that Iraq, which declared several classes of mobile vehicles to the United Nations, never said anything about hydrogen factories.
hmm, why not declare the "hydrogen factories"? nothing to hide, right?
aa
"Discuss the topic
If you are not happy with the thread then stop replying to it an bringing it to the top all the time." I do so wish you'd take your own advice, Simon.
I think I've made myself very clear about this. A few of us had a thread going a couple of weeks ago, and we were tooling along enjoying ourselves, minding our own business when BOOM, along comes Simon intoning how he was "tired of all this bullshit" or words to that effect and ZAP, our little thread was locked.
Apparently Simon can permit whatever he wants even if the topic has been beaten into a bloody pulp - like this one so long as HE likes it, but the r&f cannot enjoy it's little thread on a topic Simon doesn't care for without him locking our thread. AND there's no favoritism on this site...in a pig's eye there isn't.
Simon, I really don't care if there IS favoritism on this site, but I'd appreciate your having the balls to admit it. Since this is an anti-US site, I'd have to guess that it will go in in perpetuity, since you like it so much. But Jesus Christ don't let the r&f get a thread going on a topic that makes you "tired of this bullshit" or we'll be locked down tighter than a crab's ass.
dubla,
well BRAVO! you definately are due for receiving the "greatest stickler of all times" medaille! (you are not in accounting are you? )
its funny since you cannot win in the big picture you try to adhere to unimportant details in my posts. don't get me wrong...i know its a valid discussion method but it doesn't change anything about the overall issue.
regarding the bio labs...i said specifically in my previous post "if i remember correctly". this article was posted 3 weeks ago so pardon me if i overemphasized what i remembered to be an important point in the article.
merican and British intelligence analysts with direct access to the evidence are disputing claims that the mysterious trailers found in Iraq were for making deadly germs. In interviews over the last week, they said the mobile units were more likely intended for other purposes and charged that the evaluation process had been damaged by a rush to judgment.
"Everyone has wanted to find the 'smoking gun' so much that they may have wanted to have reached this conclusion," said one intelligence expert who has seen the trailers and, like some others, spoke on condition that he not be identified. He added, "I am very upset with the process."
The Bush administration has said the two trailers, which allied forces found in Iraq in April and May, are evidence that Saddam Hussein was hiding a program for biological warfare. In a white paper last week, it publicly detailed its case, even while conceding discrepancies in the evidence and a lack of hard proof.
Now, intelligence analysts stationed in the Middle East, as well as in the United States and Britain, are disclosing serious doubts about the administration's conclusions in what appears to be a bitter debate within the intelligence community. Skeptics said their initial judgments of a weapon application for the trailers had faltered as new evidence came to light.
ok i am still standing to my opinion that this article supports my and not your hypothesis. with all the existing pressure to declare these things as part of a bio weapons program the latest team still says they are NOT sites for WMD production.
In all, at least three teams of Western experts have now examined the trailers and evidence from them. While the first two groups to see the trailers were largely convinced that the vehicles were intended for the purpose of making germ agents, the third group of more senior analysts
since i am not a native speaker perhaps you can explain the term " more senior analyst " to me.
third team was DIVIDED, meaning even half (or more) of the "senior analysts" also concluded the trailers were intended for germ agents.
LOL you weisenheimer...it could also mean 1 to 20! LOL
as ive said all along, its a very small minority that believe otherwise
LOL a very small minority??? since you are demanding proof for every assumption please show me a link that proves this point! LOL you know even 51 to 49 is a majority! LOL
there will ALWAYS be "skeptics").
and there will always be people who buy even into the most poorly fabricated lie in political history.
hmm, why not declare the "hydrogen factories"? nothing to hide, right?
i guess they should have declared every driving vehicle in the entire country! LOL
get over it man....bush and his comrads lied. end of the debate.
get over it man....bush and his comrads lied.
yer but can you prove it?
