How Does WT Explain away, "Absent from the Body, Present with the Lord"?

by Sea Breeze 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Sea Breeze

  5Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
  6Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7(for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord. 9Wherefore also we make it our aim, whether at home or absent, to be well-pleasing unto him.

  Since Watchtower teaches there is only one "You" and not three (soul, body & spirit); how do JW's deal with the fact that scripture says that it is possible for a person to be absent from their body and to be present with the Lord in heaven?
  
  When I was pioneering, I don't recall a householder every dropping this verse on me; and I'm not sure how I would have handled it if they did.
  
  What say you?
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  a watcher

  The anointed have to be absent from the body, dead, before they can be present with the Lord in heaven.
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  Sea Breeze

  @watcher

  The chapter starts off talking about our bodies as a temporary tent.

  2 Cor. 5: 1 - For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens.

  Paul describes our bodies in this fallen world as a temporary dwelling place, like a tent (tabernacle) that our consciousness resides in. It is not built to last forever. It provides minimal shelter from the elements for a short time, like a tent. Waiting in eternity, for all who are in Christ, is a dwelling place that will last forever..

  "I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord"

  So once our consciousness leaves our body (our current home or tabernacle), we automatically have a home in heaven. It is the person that is translated at death.
  
  I don't see how the WT can get arond this scripture in claiming that we are a body only with no other identity like a spirt or soul that continues on somewhere after the demise of the body.
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  Anony Mous

  Their NWT is pretty clear that this only applies to spirit anointed Christians and not to ‘all’ Christians. They also claim the nakedness Paul talks in v3 about is death in a grave prior to the resurrection which would only happen later in 1914. So they claim that when Paul says do your best “not to be found naked” and “to be present with the Lord” that for people that died from 0-1914, Jesus will regardless find them naked in 1914 and they will not have been present with the Lord for well over 1800 years. It makes no sense, but that is their interpretation.

  The NWT is a lot more obscure with their language so it can be bent in the way they think it should read.
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  Halcon

  I believe their explanation is a bit more simple. That Paul is keeping his 'eye on the prize', which is heaven. In other words, he gave little importance to his pains and sufferings as a human being, as they were much less consequential than what awaited him in heaven.

  Ironically, in a roundabout way, I believe they may be partially correct in this interpretation because the shift is one from physical to mental, with the importance being placed on the mental. The spirit versus the tent that is the flesh.
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  Sea Breeze

  Their NWT is pretty clear that this only applies to spirit anointed Christians and not to ‘all’ Christians.

  I agree but that is stating the obvious. The NT was written to various congregations of believers, all of which were annointed until Russell invented the two-class salvation doctrine - one salvation with the new covenant and another one without it.
  
  So, there is no problem with whom it applies. The question is what does the WT think is absent from the body if not a person?

  [V.8] We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. - KJV

  
  
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  Vanderhoven7

  Certainly, I would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord immediately, never losing consciousness or being asleep unclothed for a season. But knowing that my next conscious moment will be seeing Jesus at His Coming, I'm not too concerned.
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  Biahi

  When I was a child, under 10, we had an ‘anointed’ sister at our hall. She passed away, we went to her wake and funeral. Afterwards, in the car, I asked a question. I asked if we didn’t have souls, then why was her body in the casket? Wasn’t her body supposed to fly up to heaven? My parents almost panicked. Their response was this: If one of the 144,000 dies, just before death, Jehovah inserts a soul into them, which goes up to heaven, but the rest of us mere mortals don’t get to have souls. Even as a kid, I knew this was complete BS, and was NOT in the Bible. Another reason to convince me that their teachings made NO SENSE.
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  Vanderhoven7

  I think the explanation is that since the first resurrection began in 1918 when anointed ones die now, their personalities don't need to be stored in God's memory but are immediately transformed into Spirit creatures adapted for heavenly life.

  I don't see how Witnesses can escape that man at least has a dual nature, body and soul. Soul then equals personality including memories, intellect, will and emotions.
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  Halcon

  Im guessing, but it seems to Witnesses that man has a dual nature, body and soul. Soul then equals personality including memories, intellect, will and emotions

  How does this soul, without a body, interact in heaven (in any religious teaching)?