I am genuinely curious and mainly posting this for research purposes, I do not have enough knowledge on either of these subjects to debate them in any useful manner.. (This information is as far as I am aware and may be incorrect in places)
As most know the NWT is known for placing a form of the divine name in the NT (New Testament) - While I agree the evidence is significantly weak for it too appear in the NT, a few things must be considered - (from my limited research)
Rev references the name twice (3:12, 14:1)
early copies of the LXX contain the divine name (likely the versions that the NT writers copied? Stafford has a couple of videos on this subject)
It was emphasized over and over the name [divine name, which ever form you prefer] would be "known" (other words used aswell) Forever - if this is true, Why then go against your own message in some cases and replace it with a surrogate?
Some also claim the NWT is dishonest for not translating some occurrences of "Lord" as the divine name - common ones I notice are: Phil 2:10-11, 1Pe 3:14-15, Heb 1:10
yet these all use "Lord" as a title not a proper noun, seems to be staunch trinitarians who make this claim most often
Scholar qualifications:
Why does a scholars qualification's matter? sounds dumb I know. But shouldn't there work be judged based on fact and quality not on their qualification specifically? The Catholics tried this one ages ago and made everyone think you needed 5000 different qualifications to translate the bible.. that didn't end too well.
yet from my experience a certain area of Christendom seems to place more emphasis on whether a scholar has something in the specific language or they are "quoted" by others.. just seems odd too me and very closed minded
Opinions on the Divine name in the New Testament? + an interesting question
by Blotty 30 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Blotty
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smiddy3
I am certainly not a scholar by any definition and don`t claim to be.It just seems to me that if there is a GOD he/she doesnt seem to care whether it`s name is known or not ?
2000 years after the last book of the Bible was penned and their is a number of versions as to what pronunciation that name could have been .
Jehovah`s Witnesses of course use that name however in the 1`st edition of "Aid To Bible Understanding" the writers admitted that Yahweh maybe a more correct pronunciation of Gods name ,however they settled on Jehovah as that was the most popular name used at that time ?
Used by whom I ask ?
Christendom..... whom they say are apostates ? False religion .
Just my 2 cents worth. as one who spent approx.32 years in the religion until I finally woke up.
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truth_b_known
From the historical standpoint the Israelite deity's name has changed over time.
First there was El -
He was a Canaanite God, worshiped as the Creator of the Universe and husband of Asherah by Northwest Semitic peoples and was also worshiped as the God of Israel, which he later ceased to be as he was considered a "false God". This is due to the fact that he was not an avatar of God like El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days or Allah, but was a descendant of Khaos, a very powerful amoral entity that inhabited the Endless Void before creation.
After Moses founded the worship of Yahweh, unlike Asherah, El and Yahweh began to be considered the same God. After millennia, it is not known what happened to El.
After Israel was conquered by the Assyrians they were exposed to the Zoroastrian religion and adopted the concept of monotheism. El had become YHWH.
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DATA-DOG
YHWH….. what vowels should be inserted??? No one knows…. Obviously “God” doesn’t care or we would know EXACTLY how to pronounce the Divine Name…
That being said, there is no “J” in Hebrew, so God’s name sure as shit isn’t Jehovah….
DD
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Wonderment
DATA-DOG: That being said, there is no “J” in Hebrew, so God’s name sure as shit isn’t Jehovah….
...Or, Jaakobah, Jaala, Jacob, Jannes, Jael, Jairus, Jambres, Jehoshua, Jehu, Jephtah, Joshua, Jeremiah, Jericho, Jerusalem, Jeshua, Jesus, Jezreel, Joel, Jonah, Jonathan, and a host of other Bible names.
Most people are not willing to change these names, even those knowing what you just expressed, so they stick with the traditional names, although they are not exact representations of the original names.
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Phizzy
The thorny question of the Divine name as derived from YHWH, being in the New Testament has been debated long and hard on here, and throughout the Academic world where Scholars have an interest in the matter.
We cannot know what was in the Autograph Copies of the N.T Gospels, letters and Writings, because we have no manuscripts even close in time to the original autographs.
J.W Org claims to stick closely to MS evidence, favouring the oldest available as being more accurate, which is in itself debatable, but whatever, they are therefore being disingenuous in inserting "Jehovah" where they cannot find it in N.T manuscripts that we have, i.e nowhere. They have NO manuscript support for what they have done.
I am aware of all the arguments in support of the view, a mere opinion, that the divine name in some form did appear in the Autograph copies of the N.T. I have no firm conclusion either way, but either you follow the sensible method of only including in your Bible what you actually find in the extant MS, or you produce an Amplified Paraphrase version, based upon your own Theology and Christology, which is what the NWT is.
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slimboyfat
Good point Wonderment
I think it’s probably worth pointing out that there likely wasn’t just one ancient pronunciation either. Jews in different periods (pre-exilic, post-exilic, Hellenistic) and in different regions (Judah, Samaria, the diaspora) likely had different pronunciations of the divine name. Which one are we calling “original”?
German Jehovah’s Witnesses say the name so it sounds like “yehofa”, which is possibly quite close to an ancient pronunciation of the name. So maybe Jehovah’s Witnesses have got the pronunciation right, just not the English speaking Jehovah’s Witnesses. Why be so English-centric to make the English pronunciation the be all and end all?
I think in some languages they even use forms closer to Yahweh (can anyone confirm that?), which is currently the preferred pronunciation by scholars. So one way or another, Jehovah’s Witnesses have probably got close approximations to ancient pronunciations in some languages at least.
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TonusOH
Blotty: It was emphasized over and over the name [divine name, which ever form you prefer] would be "known" (other words used aswell) Forever
If this is the case, then there is no cause for concern: God would make sure that the divine name would be known. And if it was that important to Him, He would make certain that it was pronounced as He intended. (And if it's not the right God, then the whole thing is moot.)
Otherwise, I am not sure if there are any manuscripts that are considered as a source that is used above all others to determine such matters? If we lack the original writings, then we are going by copies (and in many cases, copies of copies etc). Without some sort of rules for how to organize them, I guess one could go with the model that is most prevalent. But even that has issues, since many manuscripts are incomplete and some are just fragments.
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Earnest
slimboyfat : I think in some languages they even use forms closer to Yahweh
Appendix A of the NWT Study Bible lists languages and dialects containing the divine name in the main text of the Christian Greek Scriptures. These include :
יהוה (Hebrew), YHWH (Spanish*), YAHWEH (Indonesian), Yahweh (Spanish*), YAHWE (Kalanga, Zulu), Iáhve (Portuguese), Yahvé (Spanish*), Yawe (Bangi, Bolia, Iliku (dialect of Lusengo), Lingala, Lomongo, Luo, Ngando, Ntomba, Sengele, Teke-Eboo), Yaave (Ila) and Ya’wĕn (Seneca).
* I think the various Spanish uses must be different translations. Some English translations also use Yahweh.
I am inclined to accept the view that just as all other names in the Bible are expressed according to the language/dialect in which the Bible is written, that should also be true of God's name. After all, did Noah pronounce God's name the same way as Moses? Or Nehemiah? Or first century Jews? Did Noah even speak Hebrew?
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peacefulpete
I find inexplicable that the WT insists the texts of the NT were altered for theological reasons but refuse to acknowledge what that implies. In short it means nothing can be assumed original or complete.