Replacing God? (page 2)

DarleneGatus

Social media has so much potential yet so often becomes yet another propaganda pyramid. Unless you ignore the hype and adapt it to your own purposes.

Greta Thunberg's message is a truthful one, which is well founded in scientific knowledge. Many more people need to recognize that is a truth - a very major truth. It is as big a truth as biological evolution (including human evolution).

enoughisenough

Jesus said, "happy are those conscience of their spiritual need" or blessed are the poor in spirit :‘Poor in spirit’ is an odd phrase to modern ears, outside religious circles anyway. The traditional explanation, especially among evangelicals, is that it means people who recognise their own spiritual poverty, their need for God. Blessed are those who mourn is taken to mean people who repent and mourn for their sins. ( copied and pasted from I can't remember where )

If ones just evolved from a big bang and pond slime, why would they feel a need to build gods of wood or stone?

Some have ceased to-if they ever did- believe the Bible, but over Rev 11:18 ( written 96 CE ) told of a time the earth would be in ruination. ( "bring to ruin those ruining the earth )-so Greta's message isn't really so new .

Rivergang

Do we have an inbuilt need to believe in something?

all I know is that I have got by quite well for 28 years without having to.

Disillusioned JW

Some are using the word 'believe" in this topic differently than I do. I simply use it in the broad sense of "consider as true", whether one which is known (as much as anything can be known) is true or not. To me considering oneself as knowing something is true is a type of believing something is true. To me that is what the word believe means, and dictionaries include it as a definition of the word believe. But in the past 20 years or so I notice that a number of atheists and agnostics don't have that broad definition of the word "believe", but I have been having that meaning of the word "believe" since childhood (and thus for decades). I think they do that because the word "believe" is often used in a strictly religious sense and in the sense of considering something to be when one does not have strong proof that it is true.

For example I believe I will die some day. Likewise I believe the WT has a number of false teachings and I very strongly believe no personal god exists. I also know the WT has a number of false teachings. Some would say that they are not beliefs, but rather knowledge, but I say they are both.

People need to make decisions and take appropriate actions and in order to do so people need to classify ideas as ones which they consider to be true and ones which consider as false or completely uncertain.

Regarding the question of "If ones just evolved from a big bang and pond slime, why would they feel a need to build gods of wood or stone?", why not? People try to make sense of what they experience and they don't want to suffer. As a result long ago when human society had much less knowledge of science (or even no knowledge of science), many people concluded that some being (or beings) must have made the world. They also concluded that some being (or beings) must be causing woes (such as earthquakes and diseases) and also helping people at other times. They thus concluded that one or more god or spirit exists and that it is beneficial to make appeal to it or them. Some of the people also concluded it is beneficial to make a visual representation (such as out of wood or stone) of what they thought it looked like, as a mental aid. Some of them (the people who made the images) might have got the idea from dreams and/or hallucinations, falsely thinking they were seeing real beings.

Furthermore, some people long ago probably had hallucinations of their graven images (made out of wood and out of stone, even ones which they themselves personally made) as talking and as moving. As a result those people concluded that the graven images were also gods/spirits (or that gods/spirits were communicating through the images). See the book (copyright 1976) by Julian Jaynes called The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind, by Julian Jaynes. I own a copy of that book. One thing the book says that until about 2,500 (or 3,000) years ago it was common the mind of most (or at least many) humans to be 'in a state in which cognitive functions were divided between one part of the brain which appears to be "speaking", and a second part which listens and obeys—a bicameral mind, and that the evolutionary breakdown of this division gave rise to consciousness in humans.' The quote is from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality . Please see that article. The article also says the following.

'The term was coined by Julian Jaynes, who presented the idea in his 1976 book The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind,[1] wherein he made the case that a bicameral mentality was the normal and ubiquitous state of the human mind as recently as 3,000 years ago, near the end of the Mediterranean bronze age. ... Jaynes uses "bicameral" (two chambers) to describe a mental state in which the experiences and memories of the right hemisphere of the brain are transmitted to the left hemisphere via auditory hallucinations.

... According to Jaynes, ancient people in the bicameral state of mind would have experienced the world in a manner that has some similarities to that of a person with schizophrenia. Rather than making conscious evaluations in novel or unexpected situations, the person would hallucinate a voice or "god" giving admonitory advice or commands and obey without question: One would not be at all conscious of one's own thought processes per se. Jaynes's hypothesis is offered as a possible explanation of "command hallucinations" that often direct the behavior of those with first rank symptoms of schizophrenia, as well as other voice hearers.[2]

... In ancient times, Jaynes noted, gods were generally much more numerous and much more anthropomorphic than in modern times, and speculates that this was because each bicameral person had their own "god" who reflected their own desires and experiences.[4] He also noted that in ancient societies the corpses of the dead were often treated as though still alive (being seated, dressed, and even fed) as a form of ancestor worship, and Jaynes argued that the dead bodies were presumed to be still living and the source of auditory hallucinations.[3]'

When I talk (in person face to face) to religious persons (including ones who are Christians) who are certain that a god and other spirits exist, many of them say they have seen spirits, heard them, and felt them. In many cases I think they are reporting dreams (such as ones which they might have had in a sleep paralysis state while partially conscious) and hallucinations, but they think they really did experience real spirits. These people include some of my coworkers. These are people I know well enough that I get the very strong impression that they are completely sincere in what they are telling me on this matter.

Disillusioned JW

Regarding Greta's message about climate change and tipping points being true and being solidly based upon science see the abstract of the science article from two days ago located at https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abn7950 . This article is in the journal named Science. It's conclusion (as stated in the abstract) says the following. "Our assessment provides strong scientific evidence for urgent action to mitigate climate change. We show that even the Paris Agreement goal of limiting warming to well below 2°C and preferably 1.5°C is not safe as 1.5°C and above risks crossing multiple tipping points. Crossing these CTPs can generate positive feedbacks that increase the likelihood of crossing other CTPs. Currently the world is heading toward ~2 to 3°C of global warming; at best, if all net-zero pledges and nationally determined contributions are implemented it could reach just below 2°C. This would lower tipping point risks somewhat but would still be dangerous as it could trigger multiple climate tipping points."

"Humans must limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius to avoid runaway ice melting, ocean current disruption and permanent coral reef death, according to new research by an international group of climate scientists.

The new study is the latest and most comprehensive evidence indicating that countries must enact policies to meet the temperature targets set by the 2015 Paris agreement, if humanity hopes to avoid potentially catastrophic sea level rise and other worldwide harms."

Fisherman

I was just going to start a Topic along the same lines: Religion without God.

Many Jews for example that are active in Judaism profess to be atheists and they wear a skull cap, keep kosher, keep the sabbath and the whole ball of wax because that is what identifies them with the Jewish community. Same as participating in church rituals such as the sacraments without any belief in God whatsoever.

Why go through all that trouble? Because they like it. It is part of their heritage and culture and custom, etc. — but not to please God.

Smiles

Nobody really knows exactly how to "please God"

Fisherman

Nobody really knows exactly how to "please God"

My point is that their religious involvement is not about God.

Replacing God?

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