by BoogerMan 18 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
.........Jehovah.
The Bible's foundation name - (1 Corinthians 3:11) "For no one can lay any other foundation than what is laid, which is Jesus Christ."
The ORG's chosen name for Christians - "Jehovah's Witnesses."
Jehovah's chosen name for Christians - Acts 11:26 - "...the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."
(Mark
7:7, 8) "...they teach commands of men as doctrines.’ (no beards/yes beards) You
let go of the commandment of God and cling to the tradition of men.”
Acts 15.13: After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old.’
Remember that the name Jesus means Jehovah is salvation. Every time the name Jesus is used it points to the name of his God Jehovah. Every honour to Jesus is to the glory of Jehovah. Jehovah is the source of salvation and Jesus is the saviour Jehovah sent to bring about salvation.
Jesus is “preeminent.” (Col. 1:18)
That means he is first. In everything. First in importance, first in honor, first in exaltation. And the grammar of the verse indicates that Jesus is the “head” and the “beginning” and the “firstborn” in order that Jesus might be the preeminent one.
There is no way to otherwise interpret the phrase “King of kings and Lord of Lords”.
He is “God manifest in the flesh”. The incarnation of Jehovah sharing in one body, the son of a virgin peasant girl.
This is the Jesus the Wt tried to hide from us.
Acts 15.13: After they finished speaking, James replied: “Men, brothers, hear me. Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his (Jesus or Jehovah?) name.
That "people" was named Christians, not JW's.
(Mark 7:7, 8) "...they teach commands of men as doctrines.’ (no beards/yes beards) You let go of the commandment of God and cling to the tradition of men.”
While I agree that JWs teach commands of men, so do all other religions. They are, after all, lead by humans. Unless you'd like to suggest a specific religion, I'm sure this forum will be pleased to show its human flaws.
God for the first time turned his attention tothe nations to take out of them a people for his (Jesus or Jehovah?) name.It’s a quote from Amos so the answer in this context is clear.
Amos 9.12 So that they may take possession of what is remaining of Eʹdom,And all the nations on whom my name has been called,’ declares Jehovah, who is doing this.
The answer is not either Jesus/Christian or Jehovah. In Acts Jesus’ followers are called Christians. They are also called by Jehovah’s name. It’s both. Since Jesus’ name itself points to the name Jehovah, because “Jesus” means “Jehovah is salvation”, the two are compatible and support one another. Every use of the name Jesus glorifies his God Jehovah.
@ SBF - I'll stick to the Biblical evidence that the name of Jesus Christ was to be the priority in Christians' minds & speech, not "Jehovah."
After the millennium is over, that will obviously change. (1 Corinthians 15:28: "...that God may be all things to everyone.")
THE NAME FOR WITNESSING
Isaiah 62:2 - "... be called by a new name, which the very mouth of Jehovah will designate."
Acts 11:26 - "the disciples were by divine providence called Christians."
Matthew 10:18 - ".....for my sake, for a witness to them and the nations.
Mark 13:9 - "......before governors and kings for my sake, for a witness to them."
Luke 24: 47,48 - "....and on the basis of his [Jesus'] name....You are to be witnesses....."
John 1:15 - "John bore witness about him..." [JESUS]
John 5:37 - "the Father who sent me has himself borne witness about me."
John 8:18 - "the Father who sent me bears witness about me."
John 15:26,27 - "the spirit will bear witness about me; and YOU in turn, are to bear witness."
Acts 1:8 - "You [11 faithful apostles] will be witnesses of me...."
Acts 10:39 - "And we are witnesses of all the things he [Jesus] did..."
Acts 10:43 - "To him [Jesus] all the prophets bear witness....."
Acts 13:31 - "who are now his (Jesus') witnesses to the people.
Acts 22:15 - "because you are to be a witness for him [Jesus] to all men......"
Acts 22:20 - "......the blood of Stephen your [Jesus'] witness was being spilled..."
Acts 23:11 - "..... a thorough witness on the things about me in Jerusalem..."
Acts 26:16 -"I ...choose you as an attendant and a witness..respecting me"
Romans 8:16 - "The spirit itself bears witness with our spirit..."
1 Corinthians 1:6 - "even as the witness about the Christ..........."
1 Timothy. 2:6 - "......what is to be witnessed to at its own particular times."
2 Timothy 1:8 - "............of the witness about our Lord.. [Christ]"
1 John 5:9 - "the witness God gives...the fact that he has borne witness concerning his Son."
Revelation 1:9 - "....for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus."
Revelation 12:17 - ".......and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus."
Revelation 17:6 - "........and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus."
Revelation 19:10 - ".....the work of witnessing to Jesus.... bearing witness to Jesus."
Revelation 20:4 - "............ for the witness they bore to Jesus."
THE NAME TO BE USED & CALLED UPON
1 Corinthians 1:2 - "....with all who....are calling upon the name of our Lord, Jesus Christ...."
1 Peter 4:14,16 - "If YOU are being reproached for the name of Christ, YOU are happy.... But if anyone sufers as a Christian, let him not feel shame......but let him keep on glorifying God in this [Jesus'] name."
John 3:18 - "....he has not exercised faith in the name of the only-begotten Son of God"
Acts 2:38 - "......be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ...."
Acts 3:6 - "In the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene, walk!"
Acts 4:10 - ".......in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazarene......"
Acts 8:16 - ".......been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
Acts 9:27 - ".....and how in Damascus he had spoken boldly in the name of Jesus."
Acts 10:48 - "With that he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ."
Acts 16:18 - "“I order you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.”
Acts 19:5 - "On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus."
In whose name were Christians to witness? (see 29 scriptures above)
For whose name would Christians be hated? (Matt. 10:22)
By whose name were people healed? (Acts 3:6; Acts 4:10)
By whose name were demons expelled? (Luke 10:17; Acts 16:18; Acts 19:13)
By whose name would people receive Holy Spirit? (John 14:26)
In whose name would people pray to God? (John 15:16)
By whose name would people be named? (Isa. 62:2; Acts 11:26)
By whose name would people be reconciled to God? (Rom. 5:10; 2 Cor. 5:18)
By whose name would people be forgiven their sins? (Matt. 26:28; Acts 2:38; Eph. 1:7)
In whose name would people be judged? (John 5:27)
By whose name would people be resurrected (John 5:28)
In whose name would people be baptized? (Acts 2:38, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, 22:16)
In whose name were people to put faith? (John 2:23)
In whose name was Saul/Paul commissioned to preach? (Acts 9:14-16)
For whose name would Christians be reproached? (1 Peter 4:14)
In whose name were Christians to gather together? (Matt. 18:20)
For whose name would Christians make sacrifices? (Matt. 19:29)
For whose name would Christians be persecuted and killed? (Luke 21:12,16,17)
In whose name will every knee in heaven and on earth bend? (Philippians 2:10)
In whose name would people be declared righteous? (1 Cor. 6:11)
By means of whose name would Christians offer a sacrifice of praise? (Hebrews 13:15)
Whose name was to be used as the basis for teaching? (Acts 4:17,18)
Christ's name was to be the focus for Christians, not Jehovah - according to the Bible!
Thank you boogerman for that comprehensive list of verses, I looked up and read the first list and what struck me is that several scriptures speak of hearing and seeing what they witness about. Obviously those reading the apostle's letters had been alive when Jesus was on earth, they were literal eye witnesses.
None of us can claim to be eye witnesses of Jesus, so are we witnesses at all? Can we even claim to be witnesses of prophecies, what prophecies if so? Reading an old book doesn't make us very reliable witnesses does it? At least not the kind that would be listened to in a court of law.
I feel like there is something I should be able to see here but I can't, it's too vague. Maybe someone else can see it clearly?
The Law applied to the Hebrews. Jesus nailed the law to the cross & we as gentiles were never under the law (except Noahide) (Gal. 3:23, Rom 10:4, Eph.2:15)
Christians are under the law of Christ (Gal.6:2). So as other posters have stated, such worshipers of the God of the Bible & following the lead of the apostles are to be called 'Christians' (Acts 11:26).
I suppose their are many denominations who give their church as a whole a specific name to differentiate it from other churches - In the Bible they used only geographical location e.g. church of Ephesus /Brighton /Austin Tx etc - But naming your church or denomination something else is one thing, calling yourselves as Christian's anything else but "Christian" is not Biblical, IMHO.
In recent times Watchtower has leant more towards reclaiming the term Christian, e.g. "Jehovah's Christian Witnesses" (perhaps because they often get challenged that they are not?). But despite their protests they call each other "one of Jehovah's witnesses" first and foremost and always have.
NB. I'm still not clear if Arian's are considered fully Christian? Can someone more knowledgeable clear that up for me, please?
I'm still not clear if Arian's are considered fully Christian? Can someone more knowledgeable clear that up for me, please?
This was my experience:
I got saved while not fully shedding the Arian heresy that I'd been indoctrinated with since birth. I was a 4th gen. JW. However, I believed Jesus when he said that he posessed "all power in heaven and earth". I reasoned that if I made a deal with Jesus, that there could be nothing higher to negoiate with. Jesus honored that belief and it was enough for him to save me. Essentially, I witheld final judgmnet on the issue of deity until after Salvation.
Within, 2-3 months after salvation I was on board after researching the verse "God was manifest in the flesh". 1 Tim. 3: 16 KJV. The early church leaders freely quoted this verse as "God" and not "He". About 3am one morning while reading the bible and fretting over this verse, the Holy Spirit literally told me in my spirit "this much is true".
In the days and weeks leading up to accepting Jesus as my personal savior, The Lord was dealing with me on what he apparently believed was a much bigger isssue. The Lord was making double sure that I understood that my "good works" would have no place in the transaction. I woud not be allowed to include ANY character, abilities, or any positive intentions of any kind in the agreement.
At first, I didn't understand why I was being dealt with "so harshly". I was being dealt with in my dreams, and bible reading and had a strange mixture of elation and dread at the same time. This continued after salvation for a couple of weeks. It was like attending my own funeral and I was grieving the death of my best friend - myself.
When I finally decided to accept, it was with eyes wide open. Even though a mature Christian was leading the event and prayer, it felt like only two people were present, me and Him.
The old Sea Breeze was gone forever and would never be on the throne of my heart again. There was a sadness to see him go, if only for the comfortable familiarity of the chains I grew up with. But, I knew that Jesus and I had traded places and something new had begun.
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Jesus became my sin (the scapegoat) and I was given the totally undeserved righteousness of a perfect man in its former place.
Rather than trying to posesses all doctrinal purity before salvation, I believe it is more important to engage the deails of the NT offer that Jesus extends to us. If we secretly try to add anything or anyone one else to the NT agreement other that the person of Jesus and your own self, the deal will not be accepted in the court of heaven, and you could end up self deceived.... again.
Luke 14 : 31-33 (Amplified Bible Calssic Edition) :
What king, going out to engage in conflict with another king, will not first sit down and consider and take counsel whether he is able with ten thousand [men] to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?
32 And if he cannot [do so], when the other king is still a great way off, he sends an envoy and asks the terms of peace.
33 So then, any of you who does not forsake (renounce, surrender claim to, give up, say good-bye to) all that he has cannot be My disciple.
