Are you convinced what the Gospels say about Jesus is true?

by Fisherman 20 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Fisherman

  Eye-witness" testimony has been shown to be the most erroneous evidence at a trial.

  That’s why the witness is examined and cross examined and a trier of facts listens to the testimony and decides how heavy is the testimony. Also, that’s why when 4 witnesses or more testify to what they experience and everything correlates —like in the Gospels, that is a lot more than a feather of evidence.

  So you are very wrong about that. Eyewitness testimony is very material evidence and important and needed.

  I don't believe the gospel writers made it up. I’m convinced it is true. No doubts whatsoever.
  
  
• 

  smiddy3

  The short answer is a resounding NO.
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  Fisherman

  When Paul wrote those words in verse 16, he was not referring to his own letters, or the recent writings of any others of his time that today make up the Greek scriptures, some of which hadn't even been written yet.

  Drivel. Paul and other CGS writers were writers but God was the author. All scriptures are inspired including the Christian Greek Scriptures.
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  truth_b_known

  Fisherman:

  Your opinion on eye-witness testimony holds a many truths. Once again, examine the facts about the Gospels -

  They were written by anonymous authors.

  • They were written 3 decades to 7 decades after the events that allegedly are written about took place.
  • The books of Matthew, Luke, and John are plagiarized versions of Mark.
  • The modern manuscript of the Gospels is dated to the second century CE.
  • Manuscripts were hand copied with each copy increasing number of errors.
  • One example of an error is ink leaking through the front side of the paper to the back side changing a word that implies Jesus is God.

  Now consider this -

  The Almighty of the Universe decides that a book should be written over a span of centuries. These words are supposed to be inspired and true. However, that same Almighty One does absolutely nothing to ensure that these books are copied accurately over the centuries for future generations to come to have accurate accounts of what happened and what was said.

  The modern Bible is riddled with errors simply from copying copies of copies over and over again. For what reason would a perfect god who demands perfection allow its sacred texts to be made imperfect by human hands? Not to mention that those who took responsibility on the deciding after the fact to exclude scriptures from the Bible violated Revelation 22:18-19 and that most of the Bible is a violations of Deuteronomy 4:2.
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  Fisherman

  Hi Smid!

  I think feelings color your logic so that you conclude “no” with your feelings although the evidence may be clearly convincing to you.
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  KalebOutWest

  Matthew includes stories about Jesus that heavily borrows from the story of Moses, a folklore character of Judaism, that within the book of Exodus borrows from Mesopotamian hero mythology motifs such as being born into poverty, escaping infanticide, running off to the protection of Egypt, preaching law from a mountainside, etc. These details likely never historically happened to any leader of any Hebrew exodus from Egypt, but they are ancient Eastern ways of saying: "This is a deliverer." Matthew adapts these earmarks into his narrative for what appears to be a Jewish audience, marking much of his infancy narrative as mythology.
  

  Luke's infancy narrative is also mythology. It literally changes the language from the Koine Greek of the 1st century to the Greek of the Septuagint after its introduction to Theophilus in chapter 1 through the ending of chapter 2. It includes visits from the angel Gabriel, who is featured the most in Greek Jewish texts like the expanded Book of Daniel and especially the Book of Enoch. And in the infancy narrative of Luke, the characters break out in song as if they were in a musical, something we don't see in the other gospels. This is also a clue that the author is not being literal nor even cares to be taken that way.

  In Matthew chapter 21, the author has Jesus ask his disciples to get a donkey and a colt for him to fulfill the prophet's words for his ride into Jerusalem. This is obviously a mistake that the other writers do not make (see for instance Mk 11:2) and evidence that the author of Matthew was neither an eyewitness nor even Jewish. This is a poor reading of Zechariah 9:9 where the "savior" rides on "a colt, and the foal of a donkey." The "colt" and "donkey" are the same thing in this verse, written just as a poem. But "Matthew" misunderstands. Obviously, the "triumphant ride" into Jerusalem of Matthew is thus a fabrication--at least the one in Matthew. Whether the rabbi Jesus of Nazareth did it at all or did it in a way the gospel writers wanted the Christians to believe all depends.

  And that is the point. The gospels are meant to be "believed."
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  smiddy3

  Hi , Fisherman ,

  I think others have voiced my beleifs more eloquently than I could ever express myself on this subject and I leave it at that .

  You have a different point of view ? that`s fine

  Take care.
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  punkofnice

  Before I consider the question, please prove that Jesus actually existed with evidence outside of the Bible.
• 

  Fisherman

  PON

  prove that Jesus actually existed

  Today’s date

  You also need to consider that proof doesn’t convince.

  One outside source is Josephus. A Jewish reference to Jesus is the book Toledo Yeshu.
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  Fisherman

  Smid, you sound very reasonable and objective, that’s my approach at trier of facts.