Can we really talk about BEAUTY?

by Terry 17 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    CAN WE REALLY TALK ABOUT BEAUTY?

    (First, a necessary Preamble. Bear with me, please.)

    In my 73 years, I’ve had a writing goal:
    “Understand the differences and distinctions of words.”
    I am a writer.
    I can’t write without words.
    It becomes necessary for me to understand words in order to write effectively.

    Unless I truly distinguish what I say and think accurately when using words,
    - I am just making sounds that tickle the fancy.

    What can we agree about words?

    Some words describe real things. (Horse, dog, people).
    Other words describe feelings about non-things. (Truth, Beauty, Courage.)
    Still, other words create imaginary worlds in which deuces are wild.


    Mixing those three very different categories leads to CONFLATION of “meaning.”
    Define Conflation: Conflation is the merging of two or more sets of information, texts, ideas, opinions, etc., into one, often in error.

    Mixing categories leads to Fallacy in our discussions.
    Define Fallacy: A fallacy is the use of invalid or otherwise faulty reasoning, or "wrong moves" in the construction of an argument. A fallacious argument may be deceptive by appearing to be better than it really is.”

    We don’t want to contradict ourselves by writing errors, confusing readers, misleading people with vagueness and empty opinions. Of course not!
    But - (this is vitally important) if the speaker or writer doesn’t realize conflation has happened - the writer is bloviating and misleading others - especially if the writer has talent and skill or credibility otherwise.
    _____

    This brings us to why the tool and skill of Logic was invented in the first place.

    LOGIC: the art of non-contradiction

    We don’t have to be stuffy to be logical.
    We just need to exercise care and precision as a matter of deliberate habit.
    True Statements do not contradict reality.

    If we give an opinion, we should fly that flag outright.

    A careful writer who understands what he writes and avoids conflation, illogic, and fallacy does no damage to the thinking of the reader.
    A confused and indoctrinated writer is dangerous at worst, persuasive and misdirecting at least.

    End of Preamble (whew!)
    Sorry about all that. It was absolutely necessary, however.

    _______________________

    Finally, CAN WE TALK ABOUT BEAUTY (without confusion)?

    I wish to write accurately by distinguishing my thoughts from my feelings.
    Let’s go!
    ________________________

    May I begin a discussion of BEAUTY by referencing the human face?
    Every person with eyesight has an opinion about the human face - whether a particular face is ugly / beautiful or in-between. Agreed?

    Image result for ugly face beautiful face images

    In a beauty contest, the Judges determine by vote who IS and who is NOT. (Winner).

    Aha!
    We are onto something!

    A Comedian who doesn’t make people laugh is being JUDGED by his audience.
    He isn’t funny until he makes them laugh. The practical test exemplified.

    Careful! Be cautious before you say, ‘Beauty is in the Eye of the Beholder.”
    This can only mean no standard is possible except by consensus.

    A different set of judges, a different audience, a different Critic often arrive at startlingly
    contrary pronouncements.

    What yesterday’s Experts declared to be GREAT - may be decried by today’s Experts.

    What then?

    Take a deep breath. This gets deep.
    Ready?
    _______________
    PLATO (428 B.C.)

    The Philosopher Plato was very, very influential for thousands of years (even today)
    Plato’s influence, like parasites in drinking water, has infected everybody who drank.
    _________________

    What did Plato teach?

    Plato's Theory asserts that the physical realm is only a shadow, or image, of the true reality.
    Meaning?
    The abstract, perfect, unchanging concepts or ideals that transcend time and space
    TRANSCEND everyday contact with objects.

    (*see below for an even more boring exploration)

    So what?
    Follow this trail of breadcrumbs with me …

    Plato was Greek. He was the teacher of Aristotle.
    Aristotle was the tutor of Alexander.
    Alexander the Great (the greatest Greek!) conquered the world
    taking Aristotle/Plato’s ideas to Jews and the Jew’s religious writings absorbed them.


    New Testament Jews writing about Jesus founded the Neo-Platonic Greek view into Jesus’ and Paul’s teachings, concept-wise.

    You may balk at this!
    You may be offended by this. Or you may shrug it off.
    Doesn’t matter. The evidence is there in text.

    PLATO ruined objectivity by conflating it with Subjectivity.

    Western Judeo-Christian minds had (unaware) accepted PLATO’s view - which is conceptually self-contradictory.

    The consequence is HUGE!

    Our greatest teachers, thinkers, religious writers CONFUSE non-reality with reality and inject immaterial “spirit” into concrete things - all the while insisting (Plato would be delighted) the physical realm is only a shadow, or image, of the true reality.

    Particularly interesting to me is the language of Colossians 2:17, which reads:

    “These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.”
    This language of “shadow” (σκιὰ) and “substance” (σῶμα) mirrors the precise language used by Platonists (and later, neo-Platonists) to describe the human condition, imbued in shadows and seeking the true substance that can only be revealed by the enlightened.
    _______
    Where would Paul / Saul of Tarsus, absorb Neo-Platonic thinking?

    The Apostle Paul was born in Tarsus.
    The undefeated Grecian military leader Alexander the Great traveled through Tarsus with his massive army in 333 B.C.
    Tarsus was a “free-city” without Roman interference.
    It was well-known for its culture of Greek philosophy, literature and wealth. Its schools of learning rivaled and excelled even those found in Athens and Alexandria. Around 171 B.C. the city's library held 200,000 books, including a huge collection of Plato and Aristotle’s works.
    _______________________________________

    BUT WAIT!
    What does this have to do with BEAUTY?
    ___________________________
    ART
    ART may carry with it the exact intentions of the Artist - but - without the Viewer
    Who agrees, the Critic who nods, the collector who buys, and the AGREEMENT of those who write - where is the BEAUTY?

    To argue that BEAUTY is “there” (Art for Art’s sake) echoes Plato.
    "Art for art's sake" is the usual English rendering of a French slogan from the early 19th century, "l'art pour l'art", and expresses a philosophy that the intrinsic value of art, and the only "true" art, is divorced from any didactic, moral, politic, or utilitarian function.
    _____
    FINE ART

    Certain phrases in German or French that are used to categorize the works of art that in English are called works of fine art. In German the phrase is schone kunst; in French is beaux arts. Where, then, does the phrase "fine art" come from?


    Works of fine art are final in the sense that they are not to be used as means to ends beyond themselves, but rather to be enjoyed as ends in themselves.
    The useful is always a means; the enjoyable is an end.

    The fine arts are the arts productive of the enjoyable.

    Image result for Sheraton chair
    When a Sheraton chair is put on a platform and behind ropes it is viewed as an enjoyable work of fine art. In addition to having originally been made as a useful means for sitting down. (Practical).

    ABSOLUTES in BEAUTY or ART

    In the final analysis, if we strip away any Platonic notions (insidious propaganda) that outside of the real world a shimmering IDEAL exists casting its Shadow, we are able to separate our Intellect from our Emotions for a few seconds.

    BEAUTY is a representative word standing in for our conceptual hunger for the topmost enjoyment of Life, the finest exemplification of talent, a crowning achievement of human effort. After all that - we step away from the real world and into a Poetic, Spiritual, Religious use of the word standing in for overwhelming emotions, strong feelings we can barely contain.

    FINALLY, we have the lower shelves, bottom of the rung, ground level use of BEAUTY to mean something any person of any talent INTENDS for others to regard has somehow SIGNIFICANT if only abstractly, politically, or as a charitable shrug of the shoulders “ Nice try, Dude.”

    _____
    My apologies for all these distinctions.
    I couldn’t talk about Beauty or Art without them at my low level of skill :)




    (*Hebrews 8-10 Plato’s Allegory of the Cave)

    According to Plato’s “Theory of Forms” non-material ideas have a more fundamental reality than objects available to our senses. The idea of the chair is more real than the chair itself. You might even say that the physical chair is a “copy” of the idea of the chair.

    This philosophy is illustrated in Plato’s “Allegory of the Cave.”
    In the allegory, prisoners are chained in a cave, forced to look at a blank wall.
    Enough light shines into the cave to show shadows of the world outside the cave.
    These “shadows” are the only experience of reality that the prisoners have.

    In the allegory, the philosopher is the prisoner who escapes the cave to gain access to the real world, that is, the world of ideas.
    They can then return to the other prisoners and free them, allowing them to see the world as it really is, not just as it is perceived by their senses.

    The goal of the Greek philosopher was to understand the universals in the world of particulars.

    The Jewish philosopher Philo harmonized Jewish and Greek philosophy, applying the concept of forms, ideas, and allegories to Old Testament text and his exegetical method (the way he interpreted the Bible) was fundamental to some of the early church fathers.

    How influential was Philo? Could his philosophy have impacted any of the Biblical writers?

    This question comes to bear on Hebrews 8 – 10. In it, the writer says “[The priests] serve at a sanctuary that is a copy and shadow of what is in heaven. This is why Moses was warned when he was about to build the tabernacle: ‘See to it that you make everything according to the pattern seen on the mountain” (8:5). He also says “When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not part of this creation” (9:11). And again, “It was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one, but he entered heaven itself, now to appear before us in God’s presence” (9:23-24).

    So how did the writer of Hebrews use the language of “copy,” “shadow,” “true,” and “heavenly?” Was he making a distinction between the physical world of particulars and the more enduring realities of ideas?
    PLATO had unduly influenced the intellect of the writer. Otherwise, we must accept that Plato’s guesswork was equally inspired by God four hundred years before Christ.
    ______________




    All of the above amounts to a Philosophical discussion of implications
    in language, thought and - cough cough - meaning when combined with Religion.


  • JimmyYoung
    JimmyYoung

    beauty is an individual thing. It is not something you can explain. Nor should anyone try to. Its like , The phrase was used in 1964 by United States Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart to describe his threshold test for obscenity in Jacobellis v. Ohio.[1][2] In explaining why the material at issue in the case was not obscene under the Roth test, and therefore was protected speech that could not be censored, Stewart wrote: I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that.

  • Terry
    Terry



    In the case of Stewart, the fallacy of argument from ignorance was tested.
    Stewart is saying, "I don't know - but - I do know." However, he is arguing against
    generalization and for specificity.
    "I can't generalize - but in this specific instance I can rule on the exception."
    He used different words than I just did, of course.

    Having said all that ...

    There is an old saying which is awkwardly worded: "The exception proves the rule."
    A less awkward wording would substitute the word TEST for PROVES (like a proving ground for an airplane). "The exception tests the (general) rule."

    I'm familiar with the obscenity test under Stewart.
    There is a very basic distinction between proof and assertion and it is codified
    and instantiated by evidence presentation.

    General Principles usually apply on a case by case basis by the precedent of continual examining of possible exceptions.
    Those exceptions TEST the general Rule.
    Judges have the task of sorting out exceptions worthy of tempering an absolute rule.

    BEAUTY is a concept.
    Algebraic symbols must be given some numerical value, but may be given any value. So too the concept of Beauty. It requires some instance of value but may be given any particular instance -- and only the test of time sorts out VALUE.

    Here is an experiment I performed.
    I looked at the Top 20 books on award winning lists going back 100 years.
    Those books were judged by mavens (at the time) as "best."
    My task was rather simple: which books have stood the test of time and changing tastes and culture?

    1920

    1. The Man of the Forest by Zane Grey
    2. Kindred of the Dust by Peter B. Kyne
    3. The Re-Creation of Brian Kent by Harold Bell Wright
    4. The River's End by James Oliver Curwood
    5. A Man for the Ages by Irving Bacheller
    6. Mary-Marie by Eleanor H. Porter
    7. The Portygee by Joseph C. Lincoln
    8. The Great Impersonation by E. Phillips Oppenheim
    9. The Lamp in the Desert by Ethel M. Dell
    10. Main Street by Sinclair Lewis
    11. The Brimming Cup by Dorothy Canfield
    12. The Mysterious Rider by Zane Grey
    13. The Age of Innocence by Edith Wharton
    14. The Valley of Silent Men by James Oliver Curwood
    15. The Sheik by Edith M. Hull
    16. A Poor Wise Man by Mary Roberts Rinehart
    17. Her Father's Daughter by Gene Stratton-Porter
    18. The Sisters-in-Law by Gertrude Atherton
    19. The Kingdom Round the Corner by Coningsby Dawson
    20. Harriet and the Piper by Kathleen Norris

      HOW MANY DO YOU RECOGNIZE?

      My point?
      The "BEST" of anything really has two spheres of consideration.
      (1)Comparison to contemporaries and (2) comparison in the long run to all others as time continues.

      BEAUTY over the eons has presented many candidates and general standards have changed.
      When I was a little boy, Marilyn Monroe was the criterion of a certain kind of popular contagious fanaticism.
      She is STILL popular - but - we now are more critical of how much heavier and fleshy she was (by today's standards.)

      Bottom line: There is Beauty as a category but not as a Law of Nature unless the majority comes out year after year, century after century in solidarity to a stated standard.

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    I agree with that, one just has to look at some of the most beautiful woman ....


  • tiki
    tiki

    Terry, you have a fascinating mind. Take care not to over think and eddy down a black hole.

  • cofty
    cofty

    Didn't the Platonic Academics despise art?

  • Wasanelder Once
    Wasanelder Once

    As Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart said about obscene materials: "I know it when I see it." Its kinda the same with art to me. I don't think its a matter of "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" though. Its more that "pretentiousness is in the eye of the beholder". From there its a matter of subtraction.

  • caves
    caves

    This has dove tailed nicely into my study of stoics/Stoicism . Thank you. Really good read.

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    “It was necessary for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one, but he entered heaven itself, now to appear before us in God’s presence” (9:23-24).Heb.

    Big deal , Christ`s entering into heaven ,apparently Satan has had that privilege all along since his rebellion against Jehovah God according to the book of job.He could come and go as he pleased .Job Chap.1

    And if the Jw`s are wrong about Satan being confined to the earth in 1914-19 then Satan is probably still chatting with God in heaven to this day.

  • Terry
    Terry


    “What do we know - and - How do we know it”?


    Judaism and Christianity is filled with Plato and Neo-Platonic fluffiness.
    The Rise of Technology and Science in the West (as a result of LOGIC and Primacy of Consciousness) far surpassed
    The East (Primacy of Consciousness, Spiritualizing everyday life ).

    After the Protestant Reformation, the Enlightenment produced thinkers willing to debunk
    Long-held “Truth” by challenging it’s history and efficacy on mankind.
    Unfortunately, so many religious Philosophers and writers still clung to the Supernatural component they could not completely escape from Spiritualizing new efforts to build a Political Utopia (shining city on a hill).
    Deists (rather than Theists) along with church reform, drafted Constitutions, Bills of Rights, and developed Systematic Theology (applying logic to Holy Writ).
    The results?
    Christianity splintered into fragments of schismatic splinter groups, sects, cults, movements, churches, reforms, etc. A buffet of “freedom of choice” stultified by the hidden influences of Plato warring with Aristotelian logic.

    WHAT DO YOU THINK?

    Chances are - whatever it is - Plato and Aristotle had a great deal to do with it.










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