What is the real purpose of attending your JC?

by StarTrekAngel 21 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • StarTrekAngel
    StarTrekAngel

    I was compelled to ask this question because I have seen several of the youtube videos on JCs. On striking similarity among all these videos is that most of the people bringing the arguments to the elders are pretty much atheists or have turned to another religion altogether.

    I can easily see that the common concern in most of the people involved, is their ability to keep in touch with family and friends, which by all means would be my concern as well, when and if I ever end up in one.

    However, I can't help but to notice something. It is difficult enough to think of the day that the WT would accept a loose canon in their ranks, let alone someone who openly claims to no longer believe in God. My point is that regardless of the rules the elders are following, a point of contention among your family could be the fact that it is ok if you disagree with the WT but if you no longer believe in God, then for sure we don't want you around.

    In other words, would it not be easier to confront the elders saying you still believe in God (even if so pretending) and Jehovah but you are concerned with the direction of the WT? Would you relatives not be more inclined to ignore the shunning rules if you did not speak against Jehovah? At least from my experience, most JWs I know would assure me their loyalty is to God and that if the GB ever commanded something against the word of God, they are not obligated to listen. By all means, I know the idea of the GB ever doing so is far fetched in the minds of JWs. But... would your argument be easier if you took that approach? Would it be easier in your relatives to see you as someone who disagrees with the leadership but strongly (again if so pretending) believes that Jehovah still knows what is best for you and you believe?

    I see in many cases people bring up failed predictions, doctrine reversals and the elders always pulled the "we are just imperfect humans" card.

    How about this?... how many times did the WT explained why God allows evil by saying that Satan challenged God in front of humanity and therefore God is allowing Satan to rule the world so that humans would know what it is like? How many times have they not said that the example is similar to a student challenging the teacher in front of a class. They question... would it be honest for the teacher to expel the student without allowing the student to prove his point? Or do they not say that the just approach for the teacher would be to allow the student to demonstrate his point so that the teacher would be confirmed correct? If God allows this to happen to the extent that he puts lives at stake in order to do so, who is the GB or the elders to remain unquestioned and unchallenged?

    In one of the latest videos I saw, the elders walk around the shunning issue by saying that even if they did not DFd the guy, his family would shun him anyway because the person involved openly admitted he did not believe in God anymore. They guy kept on arguing that his family would shun him because the WT says so. In the minds of most people they are doing God's will, not the WT will. If your real purpose is to maintain association, would you be able to do so by denying God? Would you not be doing the elders job for them by telling your family this? Would you really be earning the rapport with your family as Hassan has suggested?

    Any thoughts?

  • slimboyfat
    slimboyfat

    Ironically, I have found, elders appear more forgiving of disbelief in God or the Bible than disbelief in the Governing Body.

    So tell them you find it hard to believe in God, but you are nevertheless convinced that he is using the Governing Body as his faithful slave. Scratch their heads they will, but be appeased they might.

  • Gwydion
    Gwydion

    The only point to ever go to your JC is if you're seriously considering trying to get back in. There really isn't a point other than that because you're not going to talk any sense into them, they're not there to listen, they're there to council you and interrogate you and put you on trial. It's a one sided discussion and not worth your time or trouble if you have no intention of ever going back.

    Some folks might want to try to get some audio or video with the intent of posting it on youtube or something as a record if you will to show others how wacko it can get. To each his own I suppose.

    In my own experience, I don't even know if they df'd me or not. If they tried to set up a meeting or anything. Never sent a letter, never went back for any reason. I did more than fade I vanished. I know that isn't an option for most, but it worked well for me.

  • OneEyedJoe
    OneEyedJoe

    As I see it there's a few reasons to attend a JC for apostasy, and keeping your family is probably one of the smaller ones. In my mind the only thing to do if you want to keep your family is to go and lie your ass off in an attempt to prevent being DFed. Going and arguing with elders and deciding whether you claim the WT is wrong vs god doesn't exist - none of that really matters because you'll be DFed and your family will shun you (often without fully knowing why anyway, so it doesn't matter if you're athiest or just non-JW christian).

    For those that go and argue the point with the elders, there's a couple reasons I can think of. 1st is probably the misguided attempt to wake them up. I say misguided because I don't think I've ever heard a story of a former elder here relating how they woke up after sitting on a JC for apostasy. I'd love to be shown wrong, but I doubt that's happened anywhere near enough times to justify the effort.

    Next possible reason would be seeking validation. In some cases this might fall into a subset of the first reason, i.e. you think you're going to be validated by waking up an elder in the JC, but I think in most cases it's to go and make airtight arguments that the WT is wrong and see the closed-minded iron-fisted elders fight back using dirty tactics, excuses and fallacious arguments. I can see this being validating because you'd leave knowing that you're absolutely right if their best is truly that pitiful. Another way it could be validating is to see that these elders, in spite of what they might say, are not seeking to save a lost sheep as they are supposed to according to the bible. They are seeking to expel you, further proof of the unloving, unchristian policies of this cult.

    Then the best reason I can think of to attend a JC - to record it and post it online as a way of demonstrating just what this cult is really about. The more publicity this nasty side of the cult gets, the better.

    Maybe I've missed something, but I really can't think of any other goal that you could possibly hope to achieve by attending your JC. That said, I will never attend a JC. I'll probably be DAing at some point in the not-too-distant future.

  • Simon
    Simon

    I think most of the time it's the reinforce and assert their authority over you or at the very least the people still in the KH.

    I'm sure some see it as them honestly trying to help people (they may be genuine, even if the system isn't) but the ultimate effect is always the same.

    Respect the authority.

  • nonjwspouse
    nonjwspouse

    startekangell, Ethan's - (anondude2) apostasy youtubed JC was lengthy, and Ethan did not profess atheism. He professed concern with the away the WT was going.

    Personally, I don't believe it matters one iota after reading other's JC experiences.

  • stuckinarut2
    stuckinarut2

    It is a waste of effort and time.

    The very act of going to the JC gives the society power over you, as you "recognise" their authority...

    Just ignoring it shows where the control lays.

  • Saename
    Saename
    stuckinarut2 - "recognise"

    Wasn't sure if Brits really spelled "recognize" "recognise." I'll have to change my way of truth.

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    Me, I was forced to attend by my parent, with my only other choice being homelessness.

    People seem to have a variety of reasons.

    • curiosity
    • wanting to tape it
    • wanting to avoid punishment
    • wanting to convince others of the truth
    • wanting closure (I don't get this one--closure is something inside of you--you don't need a bunch of cultists to grant you this gift.)
    • wanting an opportunity to ventilate concerns, complaints, feelings (Again, I personally don't get this one. I don't need whacked out toxic people to meet my emotional needs, TYVM.)
  • ctrwtf
    ctrwtf

    Instead of arguing about failed doctrine etc. What if you asked your JC to prove scientifically that Adam and Eve were literally the first humans on earth 6000 yrs ago?

    I know the eldumbs would talk about satan's misleading, blah blah blah. But math and science are a bitch when it comes to this. The evidence is massive that the Eden story is just that, a story. And their entire narrative rests on this one lynch pin. No Adam, no original sin. No kingdom promise and on and on.......

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