by CitizenofEarth 60 Replies latest jw experiences
Again as a former Elder - I agree with Earnest - they don't have anything on you unless you offer up more information.
To do anything they need Two witnesses, that can corroborate that you are often with the DFed person.
Being seen once with someone DFed is not enough to have a Judicial Case.
I would not engage with them, but if they contact you just be respectful and say you are appreciative of their concern for you, that you are ok, thank them, and exit.
There's no point in going unless you will agree to change your stance. You're clear of them, let it go. You will have more friends and chosen family. The org is all about conditional love to bully you into what they want.
Hi CitizenofEarth,
Several have suggested that you should decline to attend. I agree, this is the best advice. When I was contacted by elders in regards to Christmas lights I put up after being away for 2 years, I told them that I would be happy to meet with them, but since I was no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses and in fact an atheist I did not view myself as under their religious authority. And since I viewed the disfellowshipping announcement as a form of slander, I would require any meeting be recorded and that I have legal counsel present.
The elders didn't take me up on the offer. In fact when they did act months later using the one policy they had (dissociation by action) they hid from me, not returning calls or answering the phone. Only after I called them from work and assured the elder he wasn't being recorded did he finally confess that they had made the announcement against my wishes, but only after first lying and saying "he wasn't sure where the rumors had started that I was DF'd"
Now, here is the rub... the elder involved was generally a kind older man, who I had worked along side as a fellow elder. His behavior was shocking to me. But it reminded me of the burden these men labor under. They are not in a position to absorb anything you might say.
For example, you say, one of your friends was DF'd for...
Should it ever be normal or acceptable for older uninvolved men to ask questions of such a personal nature? How a couple might choose to show affection and engage in foreplay that may lead to sex, is entirely a matter between the adult consenting couple! Alas, sad to say, when I was an elder I had such conversations. Now, frankly, I'm embarrassed. The moral transgression is not with a young couple doing what is natural to humans and indeed the very reason why we all exist... the moral transgression is that a religion sees no boundaries and without training or insight or consideration of consequences injects itself into such personal matters.
Then there is this...
>>They then told me how i was spotted with two disfellowshipped in another town over 130 km away.<<
What sort of organization does things like this? What this is showing a insecurity and a hyper concern over loyalty. Totalitarian government regimes spend a lot of time on such things too. Getting their citizens to spy on one another all under the guise of being loyal.
In the end, it is up to you, but I would advise that you not attend. I'd echo Cofty's thoughts. If you have said "yes," I would now say, "On second thought, I have decided not to attend" and leave it at that. Or if you haven't responded, "I have decided not to attend." If they ask more, just say, "I don't want to discuss it." If they say you'll be DF'd, just repeat "I don't want to discuss it."
That way, you've made yourself clear and if they take action, that is on them.
Take care,
-Randy
rawe - Right On!
Cults do this.
Religion is evil. It is ALWAYS about control.
Hi and welcome
It is impressive how courageous you stand in for your inner feelings and conscience. And for sure you are a great friend.
It is very good for you, that you do that at a young age and that you see the moral flaws in this HUMAN organisation.
So now to your case. If they didn't tell you it was a judicial committee, they are just trying to remind you, that you shouldn't have contact with a df'd person. Maybe they will ask some questions to test your loyalty.
They might ask in different ways. "Do you believe the Governing Body is the faithful and discreet slave?" or "Do you believe the organisation is guided by Jehovah?"
If it is not a judicial committee and you want to continue your fade just tell them kindly you don't want to discusd this matter with them.
They have no power at all over you.
I'll give you a link to the thread about the loyalty question and my judicial committee.
I wish you all the best.
You are courageous and strong.
As promised here is the link to how i answered the loyalty question.
When I think about it now I wasted too much time with the elders.
In the Australian Royal Commission GB member G. Jackson said that you don't need to disassociate or be disfellowshipped. He said that it is possible to be inactive and remain so.
A friend of mine disassociated lately. After they got the letter the elders said he didn't need to take that step. He could have faded.
They are truly hypocrites.
They might ask in different ways. "Do you believe the Governing Body is the faithful and discreet slave?"
to which you could quite rightly reply---" since when.? not when i last went to the meetings."
Hello CitizenofEarth,
I have two comments:
1) When they said you were spotted, you could have easily said: "I'm sure it was an honest mistake, they are no longer my friends and I was home sick watching Netflix."
2) You should call them up before the JC and ask them what exactly they want to dis-fellowship you for. When they say: "Associating with xJWs", say you don't understand. The watchtower never made it clear anywhere in their teachings that you could actually be dis-fellowship'ed for that. Sure, they advise to not even say hello to them, but never made it clear anywhere that it is a serious sin worthy of capital punishment. Could they point out publications that explain this?
When the Apostle Paul said that the majority of the Corinthians followed the dis-fellowship order against one of their brothers (2 Corinthians 2:5-11), did he go after those that did not and dis-fellowship them? Can they envision how this would have been written in the bible? Wouldn't that sound tyrannical?
I f you go, even though your friends and well wishers on this forum are urging you not to......... Take over and scare the hell out of them.
Do not let on that you are taping them.......... that will be a no starter from the get go.
Instead sit down with a legal pad, those cheap yellow pads, and ask them to state their Full names while you carefully write out each name then pass the pad to them to add their signatures above their names.
Take back the pad and begin writing down every statement and question that is made. Take your time........ let them get impatient and fidgety. If asked why you are writing everything down tell them there are three reasons.
"This will be for my attorney ( MR. So and SO Esquirer) if I decide to take legal action against you as individuals.
I have informed( Mr or Ms ) the editor of our local or most prominent newspaper of the circumstances of this Judicial. He/she has asked me to take notes so they can write an opinion piece on how the JW's met out punishment for perceived wrong doings. They also wanted me to ask you on the record if we have any one who is a know child sexual abuser in the congregation. My Editor feels that our local community should be informed who is knocking on their doors.
It also occurred to me that the CO & Bethel should have an accurate record of this meeting and it's outcome.
By the way the editor was very interested in our beliefs...... like the two witness rule when it comes to child sexual abuse.
Armageddon which we are anxious to see happen even though it means the death of every man, women and child who is not a JW. After which we get to occupy the best homes in our community to live in.
The non role of women as Elders and MS and their need to be submissive to their husbands. And our unusual stand on the Ban on Blood the editor would like to know how many needless deaths have occurred over the years.
Now lets get this meeting started".
Lesson #1. They have absolutely no authority over you. They are a made up, unqualified committee of uneducated men. Don't go. Forget them. Move on. Be happy.
