Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K (page 2)

Sea Breeze

Exceptions are implied in "all" or "everyone"

Can you provide an exampe?

Thanks.

Rattigan350

None of what the OP emphasized changes what Revelation 7 & 14 says.

What Revelation says completes what was started back at Sinai. Actually before with Abraham.

There was a sacrifice, a temple. Those things can't be denied. But those were ineffective.

Jesus in the heavenly temple will have 144,000 others serving with him.

All of those Whosoevers, does not change that. Salvation is more than going to heaven and Jesus knew that.

Sea Breeze

All of those Whosoevers, does not change that. Salvation is more than going to heaven and Jesus knew that.

Rattigan,

Scripture says that we must be justified to be saved from wrath.

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

But the WT says that only 144K are justified (declared righteous). In WT theology, how does those who are not declaed righteous saved from wrath?

The WT has never addressed this question; which is the most important question a person can ask a JW.

Blotty

"Can you provide an examp[l]e?" (error corrected for clarity sake)

Just off the top of my head - there are many others provided by others on this website When dealing with similar clauses

The most "famous" one is done by Paul in 1 Corinthians 15:27, 28

However other examples include

Colossians 1:20 - reconcile to himself "All things" - does this include Satan? no (thats self evident from else where, where the bible says he will be destroyed), does it include animals? not that I'm aware of

scholars comments:

Of particular signifigance to your topic is:

“The words ‘world’ and ‘all’ are used in some seven or eight senses in Scripture; and it is very rarely that ‘all’ means all persons, taken individually.”
(Particular Redemption, A Sermon, No. 181, 28 Feb 1858.)

Others not so related but still apply:

“ἄλλος [állos] is sometimes omitted where we would add ‘other.’”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament, Blass & Debrunner, 1961 wrote (p.160))

“ellipsis: “In the broad sense applies to any idea which is not fully expressed grammatically and

leaves it to the hearer or reader to supply the omission because it is self-evident.”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature, University of Chicago Press, 1961, section 479, p. 253. Trans. by R. W. Funk)

“ellipses”: “The omission of the notion ‘other, whatever’...is specifically Greek.”
(A Greek Grammar of the New Testament Blass, Debrunner, Funk 1961, p. 254)

"But the WT says that only 144K are justified (declared righteous). In WT theology, how does those who are not declaed righteous saved from wrath?
The WT has never addressed this question; which is the most important question a person can ask a JW."
answer: Im not going into this in detail as information on this subject in depth is available elsewhere online (& the bible makes it self evident, when you understand certain elements of how it exaggerates)

Who said you had to be declared righteous to be saved from his wrath? I can think of another method in which ones can be saved from Gods wrath..

Blotty

For these other method I would suggest looking up every clause (& its context) that mentions salvation & be sure to take note of the use of "all" & "everyone" in some of them - the statements MUST harmonise and if they don't, the interpreter is in error (while it is not nessacary to understand Hebrew or Greek to read the bible, I would make a very strong argument for researching culture, time period and linguistical uses of certain words)

even in English, how often do we use "all" or "everyone" and it is absolute (literal)? I can think of very few reasons/ contexts where this is truly the case

again I am NOT going to argue, you asked for an example you got one, questions I'm more than happy to answer (with in reason) But you can also research this online (most of the time a simple google search, with first or second result) very easily in contrast with other subjects where its very hard not to get just one side of teh argument

enoughisenough

In thinking of "all" or "everyone" to be taken literally: My conclusion is if one accepts that all has sinned, then when Jesus says his blood is for the forgiveness of sin for all, then I take that to be literal as well.

punkofnice

No disrespects to my posting friends, but I always sigh when I see Scripture blurbed out as if they're real. A bit like like the JWs do. You know, the interpretation will be disagreed with by another 'Christian' from a different Church. To convince me, would be a long road. But, why not try?

Firstly, Prove the Jesus actually existed. Then you have to prove it was the Bible Jesus. After that, you have to prove that God even exists even if a 'Bible Jesus' claimed thus.

The problem as I see is, that people have been conned into believing that the Bible is true as the starting point. The starting point should be to ask if the Bible is even credible, not just because of our feelings, but facts.

Why is the Bible credible but the Quran isn't?

You've been conned by men in silly hats making big claims. Funny how they have amassed fortune from such claims and none of the rest of us have. We've been the ones giving money.

It's all a big grift.....a really big con of epic proportions. I'd like to be proven wrong, but there it is.

enoughisenough

punkofnice--in your case, I think you need to PROVE that God does NOT exist. I posted a video recently by a Jewish scholar that made some interesting points. For those who accept that there is a higher power out there and a creator, it seems reasonable to have a "written" shall we say instruction. ( that is what human creators do-they write usage manuals.) I believe the Bible is such...mainly because of how I see the world shaping up-The Bible speaking of the mark of the beast where in you must have it or you can't buy or sell- do people not see what the puppeteers of this world are trying to pull off. Watch any clips from the WEF at Davos recently? They hope to put tracking in everyone's body with vaccines, or put chips in everyone's brain. The powers that be are causing a food crisis. The planet is being ruined. I could go on....

Vanderhoven7

The fact is, the New Testament does not mention Christians that are not saved or justified, are not sons of God, are bereft of the indwelling Holy Spirit and a heavenly hope.

All Christians

punkofnice

nuffy - I think you need to PROVE that God does NOT exist.

The burden of proof is upon those claiming the existence of something.

I think you're crow barring recent events into bits from the Bible like we did as JWs.

If the Bible was from God, it would say what it means in understandable words. Instead we have mumbo jumbo that people interpret differently.

CT Russell thought that Leviathan was a train in New York os somewhere. Funny how he didn't think it was a train in outer Mongolia. No. That wasn't familiar to him. Closed mined CTR.

I'm not having a go at you Nuffy, but I think you and many others have been conned on a massive scale.

Jesus Never Limited His Promies to 144K

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