Exposing Watchtower Lies & Errors - Part II

by AGuest 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  hooberus

  AGuest said: Am I preaching a different Lord than you? Perhaps. Perhaps you are preaching a different one than me.

  You are preaching a different Lord than the Lord Jesus Christ of the scriptures, whose same body was raised as was crucified, and who is the Lord and God.

  [25] The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
  [26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
  [27] Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
  [28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
  [29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

  AGuest said:But it is not by our particular knowledge or belief at some time that identifies us - Paul had to change his thinking on several occasions. What identifies us is our love... for God, neighbor and enemy... without hypocrisy.

  While love is an identity of a follower of the true Jesus, it is not the only identifier. You must have the true Jesus.
• 

  AGuest

  The only way that you can know that you are coming to the true Jesus Christ (John 5:39-40) is to study the scriptures.

  Dearest Hooberus (peace to you)... and may I say that perhaps you misunderstand these verses, which say:

  "You are examining the scriptures... because you THINK that by means of THEM... you will have everlasting life. And these [the scriptures]... are the very one that bear witness... about ME. And yet... you do not want to come to ME... that you may have life.

  Now, I am not sure how you got what you did from those verses, but the above is what it MEANS. And I took that direction, put faith in it... went to HIM... and, well, that's how I am where I am now. And WHY did my Lord say such a thing? Because, as I pointed out to you with regard to the resurrection matter, one may say/write one thing, and another another. My Lord said to go releasing and stop judging; Paul said to shun people, then not to judge. Some wrote that the resurrection had occurred; others disagreed. Jeremiah 8:8, which IS scripture (as it written by the Prophet Jeremiah) said that due to "false stylus of the secretaries," what was written had been worked out to be "sheer falsehood." Paul said, "All scriptures is inspired and beneficial..."

  Who does one believe? In all my days I searched for the truth... and it wasn't until I found him (or rather, was found BY him) that I understood that the Truth was not a what or a where... but a WHOM (John 14:6). And it wasn't until I began listening to HIM... that I had my ears "excavated" - opened up - so as to hear "truth itself." Proverbs 8:4-11; Psalm 40:6

  Now, don't get me wrong: the verses that you have cited make sense to me! And so, of course, I had to go back and ask... again. And this time, I heard a question and an answer, for my Lord asked me, "Was not Lazarus raised from the dead? Why then did he die again? Because he had the same flesh. That which was corruptible. He had not yet been given a 'white robe'... a SPIRIT body... which body can put on... and put off... flesh and bone." (Revelation 6:11)

  What occurred with my Lord is what Paul (?) explained when speaking of the "first" resurrection at 1 Corinthians 15:50-54 and Thessalonians 5:15-17: when the Master arrives, those who belong to him but have DIED will be raised up... and those who belonged to him and have NOT died... will... along with and at the SAME time as those raised up... be CHANGED. "In an instant." (John 11:25) Thus, my Lord's "first" flesh died... his spirit was raised up along with his flesh... and it was CHANGED. So that he could put on and put off ANY certain "vessel" he chose.

  That is why neither Mary nor the disciples discerned any holes in his hands: surely, that is the FIRST thing any of them would have looked for, particularly if he didn't look like himself. But, in order not to "lose" any other than Judas, he "put on" a vessel for the sake of Thomas' faith! The others had faith although they did NOT see... as have those since then. Thus, they are "happy". For seeing... is NOT believing. It is believing in that which is UNSEEN... but HEARD... that requires faith. And FAITH... is what "preserves alive" the soul. FAITH... is what the "righteous" live "by means of." For faith is the ASSURED expectation of the things hoped for, the EVIDENT demonstration of reality... THOUGH NOT BEHELD. (John 20:29; Habakkuk 2:4; Acts 9:5, 7, 8; Hebrews 11:1)

  Now, dear Hooberus, I can say to my Lord, "Well, dear Hooberus has quoted a great many verses which say such and so, and so perhaps I should believe him." And my Lord will most likely reply, "Yes, child, you can do that. You are, after all, "free" are you not?"

  Or... I can listen to the One who speaks "from the heavens"... whose voice is NOT that of a "stranger". Since I have chosen to be HIS slave, dear one, you must know that I also choose THIS option, you see, because, I KNOW that voice: it is the voice of my Lord and in all the time that I have known it, known HIM, he has uttered nothing but truth itself, and all of his sayings have been in righteousness." Hebrews 12:25; Proverbs 8:4-11

  Therefore, until HE directs me differently, I have no choice but to exercise FAITH in it... and thus, in him. For there is no other in whom I am to put my trust. No other than the my Lord, JAHESHUA (Jah Saves) MISCHAJAH (chosen/anointed of JAH), the Son and Christ of the Holy One of Israel, whose name is JAH (Psalm 68:4) of Armies.

  Again, I bid you peace.

  YOUR servant, and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  DJ

  Oh my..........It is the love that binds us together and is precious to our union with Christ. Some things are disputable between two people who both love our Lord. It it worthless and does nothing to edify the body of believers. I love you two both so much that I will not even give you my opinion on the issue. I do think that we all can agree that it was Christ who died for us and Christ who rose. Let's not do the bidding of the evil one by arguing the specifics..I beg?

  Shelby, I have noted that whenever you mention the name of the Son, you always use the Hebrew. I thought that it was out of a fear of connecting Jesus with Zeus. I have a friend who feels the same way. I just wonder though....when the New Testament was written in the Greek...the Hebrew name for Jaheshua? There is no J in Hebrew>>>>>>>>??? Yaeshua, would maybe be more correct, right? Anyway.....why don't you think it a possibility that the Hebrew name for the Son was translated into the Greek language by the holy spirit. That being....I forget is it IESOUS? That doesn't bother me. It means The GOD right? What is wrong with that? That would be very understandable to me....because face it, we have lost the proper pronunciation of the Father's name, haven't we? Perhaps this is why the Son's name is the only name we need by which men be saved. ZEUS is no one to me or you. That meant God to those who believed mythology. We don't believe in many Gods as the pagans did. We know One GOD. The bible teaches that...God is One right? In Hebrew the word used there for "One" is translated to be likened to the way that One grape belongs to a cluster. Do you see? It is not the Hebrew word for ONE as in 1, 2, 3. There is a big distinction to made there. There is no longer a need for you to be ashamed of Jesus. He is so much more than a name. He dwells within us and He is. He died to free us. He is God. You ask Him questions all of the time, right? Well, go ahead my friend ask Him who He is. He will show you and free you from the fear of the wt that you sting have a tiny spec of in your mind. Be free of them, Shelby. That made that look true too but it is a lie. My Lord Jesus is My Lord Jaheshua !! Ask Him if it is ok for you to call on Him in English. He will comfort you! Love, dj
• 

  AGuest

  Ah, dear DJ... the greatest of love and peace to you!

  My spirit bears witness with the love you are showing toward me and dear Hooberus... and I absolutely agree. I, too, hope we can "settle" our "differences" in love... and realize that if we are not "against" one another... we are, then, FOR each other. I also agree that one, as in a cluster, is what is meant by the Hebrew word.

  I use the name I do for my Lord as that is the name he revealed to me. When I asked about "Jesus"... truly, it is NOT a name that he... favors. It is a name that has been used throughout the world to do a great deal of injustice. It does mean "the God"... as it is "Je Zeus," zeus being the Greek word for God.

  But my Lord has a name, JAH-ESHUA, such that he is the One whom "comes in the name of JAH." His English name is not "Jesus" - the Greek letter for "J" was "I"; however, the Hebrew letter for "J" is the "yodh"... which SOME believe to be a "Y". It is not, however, for there was no Hebrew "Y". There was the "J"... or "yodh"... which is PRONOUNCED like a "Y"... so that many translators have ASSUMED it to be a "Y".

  Thus, the name "JAH"... is pronounced "Yah"... as in "Allel u... Jah" (hallel -pronounced "allel" for the "h" is silent,)... u.. Jah." Praise you, Jah.

  I, too, though "Jesus" to be quite okay. While my Father did, when He first spoke to me so that I understood Him, said, "I am the One known to you as 'Jehovah' (my Lord later revealed to me the name "Jah" and some time afterward directed me to Psalm 68:4)... my Lord has NEVER revealed himself to me as "Jesus". He has always used the name "JahEshua" (pronounced "YahShua"... or "Joshua" with the "J" sounding like a "Y")... or "I am the Christ"... "I am the Christ, Son of Jah"... or "It is I, the Christ."

  So, that's why. I have no qualms with someone else using the name "Jesus"... if that's what their faith tells them to do. What they do is of no matter to me: who am I to judge the house servant of another? To his own master he will stand... or fall. For me, though, I know that is it those who call on the name of "JahEshua", "Yahshua" or "Joshua" (who is also the Christ (chosen) of JAH)... that will be saved. So, it's important to ME. My love for YOU... remains.

  I hope that helps you understand my position, dear DJ. And again, thank you for your exhortation to Hooberus and I. I will take it to heart, truly.

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  DJ

  Yes, Shelby I understand your position and respect your feelings completely. I am still wondering what you think about when the apostles wrote the Greek Scriptures. Do you think that the apostles wrote our Lord's name as Iesous (sp?) What do you suppose they wrote? I must confess to you, this whole name thing since I was a child is getting old. I sometimes wonder if all of the confusion about names, is of God...I think that our relationship is what matters most as I know you agree. Why should we let the pronunciation mix us up. I know Him and He knows me. I refer to the Father as Abba or Papa or Father.....hey, sometimes I just pray without using a name. I am not afraid that the devil will hear my prayers by some fluke...I used to think that and my prayers were hindered terribly. Yes, that is Satan's work to hinder prayers. I don't want to feel that if I use the name of my Lord and Saviour Jesus, that it is bad. If I had to change His name again..it would be like leaving Him. I already had to go through that with the name Jehovah. I don't think that guessing at vowels is a good enough way to decide the pronunciation and then DEMAND that we use it, do you? Is it your feeling that my Lord wills me to discard the name I love Him by? dj
• 

  DJ

  bttt so Shelby doesn't lose me>>>>>
• 

  AGuest

  Hey, Deej... dear one... sorry, but I went to bed - LOLOLOLOLOL!

  I think that you can do one of two (2) things: use the name(s) revealed to you thus far (Exodus 6:2, 3) or ask HIM if you should know him by another. Is it of any import? To me, yes. It is IMPERATIVE that I "make His name known," for it is part of the commission given me. How can I do less than I am charged with doing?

  But my intent is not to... ummmm... force anyone to do... or accept anything. I hear; I speak. Whether THEY hear... or refrain. Does it mean that ones will not receive life by means of this very thing? Who am I to judge? By means of my Lord, my Father shows mercy to whomever HE wishes to show it. It is His "call" for whatever reasons HE wishes to make it. I am nothing more than a servant... doing my master's "will."

  I think you should know, however, that when ADDRESSING Him, I, too, call my God, "Father." And on occasion, my heart is so overwhelmed that I call out, "Abi!" "Abi JAH". And I use "JAH" when praising Him, saying, "May your most holy name, JAH, be sanctified, and all reproached removed from it; may the day come when ALL will know that you, whose name is JAH, YOU are the Most High over all creation."

  He is my Father, true... merciful and abundant in loving kindness, so that if I approach Him... ummm... casually... He does not rebuke me. However, along with being my Father, He is also the Creator and Most High God... and so, from time to time, I approach Him in the "light"... and pay Him my respects, not as a "son"... but as a creation.

  I truly hope you understand my position, DJ... and now I am off to look at your other response. Peace to you!

  Your servant, sister, and fellow slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  hooberus

  Oh my..........It is the love that binds us together and is precious to our union with Christ. Some things are disputable between two people who both love our Lord. It it worthless and does nothing to edify the body of believers. I love you two both so much that I will not even give you my opinion on the issue. I do think that we all can agree that it was Christ who died for us and Christ who rose. Let's not do the bidding of the evil one by arguing the specifics..I beg?

  AGuest has a different Christ than the real Lord Jesus Christ. His/her Christ is a "created" being, who is not God, who was "impaled" and who's "resurected body" was not the same as the one which was nailed to the tree. Hense he had to use "a body" with wound holes in order to convince Thomas of who he was. His/her "Christ" is more similar to the Watchtower Christ than the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible.
  

  2 Corinthians Chapter 11

  [4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
  [5] For I suppose I was not a whit behind the very chiefest apostles.
  [6] But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.
  [7] Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?
  [8] I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service.
  [9] And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself.
  [10] As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia.
  [11] Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth.
  [12] But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
  [13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
  [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
  [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
• 

  AGuest

  AGuest has a different Christ than the real Lord Jesus Christ. His/her Christ is a "created" being...

  My Lord indeed had a "beginning." However, he shall have no end.

  Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14

  who is not God...

  And, in truth, he is NOT God... but the SON of God. God has no need to "beget" Himself.

  Matthew 17:3; Mark 10:18; John 14:28; Luke 3:23, 38; Hebrews 1:2

  who's "resurected body" was not the same as the one which was nailed to the tree.

  The one that was nailed to the tree... was changed... so that my Lord was given a "white robe"... a NEW body... a SPIRIT body... which was now an incorruptible vessel. By means of holy spirit, then, he could "put on" and "put off" whatever flesh (and bone) he chose, as all "free" spirit beings can do. It is for this reason, to PREVENT the putting on and off of flesh... that the "angels that sinned" were bound.

  1 Corinthians 15:35-38, 40, 42-44, 46-49, 50-54; 1 Peter 3:18

  Hense he had to use "a body" with wound holes in order to convince Thomas of who he was. His/her "Christ" is more similar to the Watchtower Christ than the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible.

  Faith... "the evident demonstration of realities... though NOT beheld (or SEEN)"... is what preserves alive the soul, by means of holy spirit. Thomas... lacked faith... which lack could have cost him his salvation. For he readily stated: "I will NOT believe... unless I see." Yet, hope... that is SEEN is not hope... for when a man SEES a thing, does he HOPE for it? But... if we hope for what we do NOT see, we keep on waiting for it with endurance. And so, in order to SAVE him... because he LOVED him... my Lord showed Thomas what he himself said he NEEDED to see in order to believe. And then, my Lord told him that it would be those who did NOT see... who would be "happy."

  John 20:25, 27-30

  2 Corinthians Chapter 11 - [4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

  I preach the same Lord as did Paul and the other apostles, the Son of the Holy One of Israel, the True Vine and Root of Jesse... Sprout!... whose name... is "JAHESHUA", or, in English, "Joshua".

  Zechariah 3:8; John 15:1

  And the spirit that I speak by is that which I received from my Lord, by means of his merciful gift of undeserved kindness... in the form of holy spirit. It is for that reason that rather than speak of my own initiative, or expound on what was given me by earthling man, I give to the glory to that One... just as he gave all glory to his Father.

  1 Corinthians 12:10; John 5:23, 24

  [13] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. [14] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. [15] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

  If that is your assessment, so be it. But I am not concerned, for a slave is not greater than his master. Indeed, if they called the householder "Beelzebub," how much more will they call those of the household so?" But I have no choice, dear Hooberus, than to speak what I hear just as my Lord directs me. So, if you cannot believe my words, then perhaps you can believe on account of my works... for I am no more than a good-for-nothing slave, sent to recall Israel to the senses: they have but one Leader, my Lord the Son of God. They do not need ANYONE to be teaching them... including ME... but need only put their faith in the One whom the Father sent forth. By means of listening to HIM... and NOT to you OR ME... then they can be 'shepherded' in truth BY the Truth.

  And that has been my message from the start. Now, whether you know him by a different name than I do is, to me, irrelevant. For as my Father said to Moses with regard to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, "... as respects my name JaHVeH... I did NOT make myself known to them." And yet, who between them and Moses is "greater" in the kingdom of the heavens?

  Matthew 8:11; Exodus 6:2, 3

  The fact that a name has been revealed to me does not make me "greater" than you... or anyone else. Rather, it simply means that I asked... and "received." Do YOU dare ask? Or are you "stuck" on what earthling man has taught YOU? For although YOU say:

  His/her "Christ" is more similar to the Watchtower Christ than the Lord Jesus Christ of the Bible.

  ... it is YOU who "put YOUR trust... in earthling man," earthling man who has told you that my Lord's name is "Jesus"... when it is not.

  As before, I bid you peace.

  YOUR servant... and a slave of Christ,

  SJ
• 

  hooberus

  The issue of the deity of Jesus Christ is being discussed on this thread:

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/50808/3.ashx