SECRET RECORDING 14TH APRIL:RALPH WALLS: MORE CHANGES ARE COMING!

by raymond frantz 47 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Halcon

  nicolau- its not the JW's fault, it's the source material. Taking several steps back and observing Christians debating and disagreeing on interpretations of scripture you soon realise what the real problem is. No-one is rooted in reality, it's all a house of cards, sandcastles, pie in the sky.

  The source material is pretty uniform, it's the interpretations that are all over the place.

  The scriptures clearly state God is one, and created all things. We are created in his image. And so it follows that we all have a measure of his divinity in us. The scriptures, however, never claim that we will ascend to be as equal to God in generating our own life source.
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  Listener

  Halcon - What a claim. What scriptures did he use to support this?

  He didn't use any scriptures and it is the first time I have heard that the anointed were going to receive their own source of life and energy.

  Being given incorruptible bodies is in their literature but I can't find anything to show that receiving their own source of life is in there.

  I did find the following about Jesus -

  Watchtower 62 10/1

  36 The title “father” means a male parent, and a male parent means a progenitor, an author or source, one who begets or brings forth offspring. Since God was the Father of Jesus, was Jesus also dependent upon God for life? Only Jesus’ own words could give a convincing answer to this question. Note now these words of Jesus: “The dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.” (John 5:25, 26, AV) God as the Father is the Source of life; and he gives to his Son the privilege to have life in himself. We can therefore appreciate what John 1:4, 5 (AV) says of the Word or Logos: “In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”

  They further state in the article that as Jesus has his own source of life, he is the power to resurrect and was given those keys.

  But whether they moved away from this teaching is not clear. There are numerous articles before and after this that state that only Jehovah is the source of life.
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  Earnest

  In the Question from Readers in the September 15, 2003 Watchtower it distinguishes between Jesus as having "life in himself" (John 5:26), meaning he can impart life to others, and his followers as having "life in themselves" (John 6:53), meaning having everlasting life. This applies to the anointed when they are resurrected to heavenly life, and to the rest of Christ's followers after the end of the thousand years.
  
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  Halcon

  Listener-They further state in the article that as Jesus has his own source of life, he is the power to resurrect and was given those keys.

  It makes sense that God would bestow this ability to his Son, for obvious reasons.

  Earnest -in the September 15, 2003 Watchtower it distinguishes between Jesus as having "life in himself" (John 5:26), meaning he can impart life to others, and his followers as having "life in themselves" (John 6:53

  This interpretation is more straight forward and clear, life simply meaning existing vs not existing.

  Ty Listener for further clarifying that no actual Scriptures were used by the speaker. The notion that God would ascend the 144k to such a degree so as to be just like him is rather neoplatonist.

  It's saying that if God chooses to destroy you, you can just regenerate yourself back to existence. What an absurd idea.
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  Journeyman

  It's saying that if God chooses to destroy you, you can just regenerate yourself back to existence. What an absurd idea.

  Indeed, and that's at the heart of it. "Immortality" is nothing to do with having life separate from God, but rather, having the guarantee of life precisely because one's relationship with God is so close that He promises to sustain it forever. Remember, only God has the "source of life".

  Creatures can only sustain their own life by God's permission. If He wishes to sustain an individual, they can survive despite lack of food or water, or in the most hostile conditions. Think of Israel in the wilderness, Daniel and his companions in the fire, Jonah in the big fish, and so on. In contrast, without God's permission of life, even the most healthy and well-supported individuals will die - as Adam and Eve discovered (and Satan and the unfaithful angels face in future).

  Jesus is immortal, not because of his own inherent ability to let himself live separately from God, but because of his Father's promise and intention never to remove life from his Son or allow him to lose it ever again. This, in turn, is based on the Father's confidence that the Son will never do anything that is deserving of death, due to Jesus having already proved supremely faithful - in other words, he has proved he will never do any act of disloyalty or rebellion that will draw him away from the Father (since drawing away from God is itself what leads to death, as Adam and Eve found).

  That reward is also given to the anointed kings and priests in heaven, Christ's brothers, when they receive their crown. (1 Pet 1:4, 1 Cor 15:50-55)

  Eventually it will extend to all those described in John 6:53, the ones faithful and loyal enough to be accepted "into God's rest" at the end, who will by then have all proved themselves loyal beyond doubt.
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  ThomasMore

  Ciro just passed away a week ago. He was 93 years old.

  He used to travel over to the UN weekly during the years that WTC was an NGO. His driver would drop him off and pick him back up when he was ready. Some say that the UN idea was his but I don’t know. He was an out of the box thinker and fully supported by the administration.

  I still marvel that some JWs deny their involvement - even after the UN posted confirmation as an NGO. The dishonesty among apologists is astounding.
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  Jeffro

  Beth Sarim:

  I have my original 1988 Revelation Climax book in pristine condition. The one that we went through,,,I forget how many times.. The original copy without the "insert",,,, the original copy before the Borg got "busted" as a UN NGO affiliate. You should have seen the looks I got one time during the the CO visit around 2007 or so. We were doing the Revelation Climax book,,,& I did NOT have the ""updated insert"". I only had the "original" You'll have to pry my original 1988 Revelation Climax book from my cold dead hands.
  
  

  See also https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/156732/revelation-grand-climax-adjusted.

  I have suspected for some time that they are working on an updated book about Revelation.
  
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  Phizzy

  Beth Sarim's comment about going through the Rev, Book in 2007 reminded me of the fact that at the time I was fully aware of the whole NGO debacle, and the Org's lies, the infamous Library Card lie for one,

  At a Group Study in a private home as they were then, I gave an answer that revealed that there was a problem with the org's close association with "The Beast", but worded it in such a careful way that I seemed not to be criticising the Org. The Elder taking the group was at a loss as to how to react, because he knew nothing of this matter of course, he just mumbled some sort of acknowledgement of my answer, and that was it, I thought he might question me later, but no.

  It is noteworthy that just a few months later he was one of the two Elders who tried to trap me in to saying something so that they could D.F me for Apostasy.

  But again, having more knowledge than he did, thanks to Posters here on JWD ! he was unable to get me to fall in to his traps.

  An updated Book on Revelation I will find hilarious for several reasons, one being that they will totally misinterpret everything in "Revelation" again, but with fresh nonsense, but also that they will totally expunge any attacks on Governments and the U.N because they are coming up against both legally, and in all sorts of ways that will cost them $$$. I think they will stress how the org. and J.W's, as "faithful Christians" should respect and obey "the superior Authorities" that are "placed in position by god", although nothing like that is found in "Revelation", which is a thinly veiled attack on the Roman Emperor.

  Rutherford will be spinning in his Grave.

  Every move they now come up with is to make them more acceptable to the Public and Governments etc. It is all about the $$$.

  But change they must, or go bust.