Question for Hillary or ?

by DJ 20 Replies latest jw friends

DJ

Hillary,
You seem rather well-educated about inside workings of the watchtower so I'm hoping that you might know the answer to my question. I have asked it on several threads but no one seems to know. The statement from JR Brown on the CBS news last night stated that the elders are to report pedophilia cases where it is the law to do so. Naturally, I'm stuck there. Do you know where it is the law and where it is not? It appears to me that the wt likes to use that phrase in order to sound law abiding. In reality, it is deceptive. I don't think that all states in the US have a reporting law. As a matter of fact, I think there are very few. This legal loophole gives the wt freedom to do as it pleases....the heck with common sense or protecting children. Thanks in advance....love, dj

Scully

Here is a continuing education course for people in the health care professions on Child Abuse

http://www.medceu.com/course-no-test.cfm?CID=510

Here is the table from that course outlining who is required by law to report child abuse (known or suspected) in each state. It is information that was in effect from December 31, 2000, so there may be some updates and changes in the 2 years that have followed.

STATE	PROFESSIONS THAT MUST REPORT					OTHERS WHO MUST REPORT		STANDARD FOR REPORTING	PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATIONS
STATE	Health Care	Mental Health	Social Work	Education/ Child Care	Law Enforcement	All Persons	Other	STANDARD FOR REPORTING	PRIVILEGED COMMUNICATIONS
ALABAMA §§26-14-3(a) 26-14-10	X	X	X	X	X		· Any other person called upon to give aid or assistance to any child	· Known or suspected	· Attorney/client
ALASKA §§47.17.020(a) 47.17.023 47.17.060	X	X	X	X	X		· Paid employees of domestic violence and sexual assault programs and drug and alcohol treatment facilities · Members of a child fatality review team or multidisciplinary child protection team · Commercial or private film or photograph processors	· Have reasonable cause to suspect
ARIZONA §§13-3620(A) 8-805(B)-(C)	X	X	X	X	X		· Parents · Anyone responsible for care or treatment of children · Clergy	· Have reasonable grounds to believe	· Clergy/penitent · Attorney/client
ARKANSAS §12-12-507(b)-(c)	X	X	X	X	X		· Prosecutors · Judges · Div. of Youth Services employees · Domestic violence shelter employees and volunteers	· Have reasonable cause to suspect · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result
CALIFORNIA Penal Code §§11166(a), (c) 11165.7(a)	X	X	X	X	X		· Firefighters · Animal control officers · Commercial film and photographic print processors · Clergy	· Have knowledge of or observe · Know or reasonably suspect	· Clergy/penitent
COLORADO §§19-3-304(1), (2), (2.5) 19-3-311	X	X	X	X	X		· Christian Science practitioners · Veterinarians · Firefighters · Victim advocates · Commercial film and photographic print processors	· Have reasonable cause to know or suspect · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result
CONNECTICUT §§17a-101(b) 17a-103(a)	X	X	X	X	X		· Substance abuse counselors · Sexual assault counselors · Battered women's counselors · Clergy	· Have reasonable cause to suspect or believe
DELAWARE tit. 16, § 903 tit. 16, § 909	X	X	X	X		X		· Know or in good faith suspect	· Attorney/client · Clergy/penitent
DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA §§2-1352(a), (b), (d) 2-1355	X	X	X	X	X			· Know or have reasonable cause to suspect
FLORIDA §§39.201(1) 39.204	X	X	X	X	X	X	· Judges · Religious healers	· Know or have reasonable cause to suspect	· Attorney/client
GEORGIA §§19-7-5(c)(1), (g) 16-12-100(c)	X	X	X	X	X		· Persons who produce visual or printed matter	· Have reasonable cause to believe
HAWAII §§350-1.1(a) 350-5	X	X	X	X	X		· Employees of recreational or sports activities	· Have reason to believe
IDAHO §§16-1619(a), (c) 16-1620	X		X	X	X	X		· Have reason to believe · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result	· Clergy/penitent · Attorney/client
ILLINOIS 325 ILCS 5/4 720 ILCS 5/11-20.2	X	X	X	X	X		· Homemakers, substance abuse treatment personnel · Christian Science practitioners · Funeral home directors · Commercial film and photographic print processors	· Have reasonable cause to believe
INDIANA §§31-33-5-1 31-33-5-2 31-32-11-1	X	X	X	X	X	X	· Staff member of any public or private institution, school, facility, or agency	· Have reason to believe
IOWA §§232.69(1)(a)-(b) 728.14(1) 232.74	X	X	X	X	X		· Commercial film and photographic print processors · Employees of sub-stance abuse programs	· Reasonably believe
KANSAS §38-1522(a), (b)	X	X	X	X	X		· Firefighters · Juvenile intake and assessment workers	· Have reason to suspect
KENTUCKY §§620.030(1), (2) 620.050(2)	X	X	X	X	X	X		· Know or have reasonable cause to believe	· Attorney/client · Clergy/penitent
LOUISIANA Ch. Code art. 603(13) Ch. Code art. 609(A)(1) Ch. Code art. 610(F)	X	X	X	X	X		· Commercial film or photographic print processors · Mediators	· Have cause to believe	· Clergy/penitent · Christian Science practitioner
MAINE tit. 22, § 4011(1) tit. 22, §4015	X	X	X	X	X		· Guardians ad litem and CASAs · Fire inspectors · Commercial film processors · Homemakers	· Know or have reasonable cause to suspect	· Clergy/penitent
MARYLAND Family Law §§5-704(a) 5-705(a)	X		X	X	X	X		· Have reason to believe	· Attorney/client · Clergy/penitent
MASSACHUSETTS ch. 119, § 51A ch. 119, § 51B	X	X	X	X	X		· Drug and alcoholism counselors · Probation and parole officers · Clerks/magistrates of district courts · Firefighters	· Have reasonable cause to believe
MICHIGAN §722.623 (1), (8) 722.631	X	X	X	X	X			· Have reasonable cause to suspect	· Attorney/client
MINNESOTA §§626.556 Subd. 3(a), 8	X	X	X	X	X			· Know or have reason to believe	· Clergy/penitent
MISSISSIPPI §43-21-353(1)	X	X	X	X	X	X	· Attorneys · Ministers	· Have reasonable cause to suspect
MISSOURI §§210.115(1) 568.110 210.140	X	X	X	X	X		· Persons with responsibility for care of children · Christian Science practitioners · Probation/parole officers · Commercial film processors	· Have reasonable cause to suspect · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result	· Attorney/client
MONTANA §41-3-201(1)-(2), (4)	X	X	X	X	X		· Guardians ad litem · Clergy · Religious healers · Christian Science practitioners	· Know or have reasonable cause to suspect	· Clergy/penitent
NEBRASKA §§28-711(1) 28-714	X		X	X		X		· Have reasonable cause to believe · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result
NEVADA §§432B.220(3), (5) 432B.250	X	X	X	X	X		· Clergy · Religious healers · Alcohol/drug abuse counselors · Christian Science practitioners · Probation officers · Attorneys	· Know or have reason to believe	· Clergy/penitent · Attorney/client
NEW HAMPSHIRE §§169-C:29 169-C:32	X	X	X	X	X	X	· Christian Science practitioners · Clergy	· Have reason to suspect	· Attorney/client
NEW JERSEY §9:6-8.10						X		· Have reasonable cause to believe
NEW MEXICO §§32A-4-3(A) 32A-4-5(A)	X		X	X	X	X	· Judges	· Know or have reasonable suspicion
NEW YORK Soc. Serv. Law §413(1)	X	X	X	X	X		· Alcoholism/substance abuse counselors · District Attorneys · Christian Science practitioners	· Have reasonable cause to suspect
NORTH CAROLINA §§7B-301 7B-310						X	· Any institution	· Have cause to suspect	· Attorney/client
NORTH DAKOTA §§50-25.1-03 50-25.1-10	X	X	X	X	X		· Clergy · Religious healers · Addiction counselors	· Have knowledge of or reasonable cause to suspect	· Clergy/penitent · Attorney/client
OHIO §2151.421(A)(1), (A)(2), (G)(1)(b)	X	X	X	X			· Attorneys · Religious healers	· Know or suspect	· Attorney/client · Physician/patient
OKLAHOMA tit. 10, § 7103(A)(1) tit. 10, §7104 tit. 10, §7113 tit. 21, §1021.4	X			X		X	· Commercial film and photographic print processors	· Have reason to believe
OREGON §§419B.005(3) 419B.010(1)	X	X	X	X	X		· Attorneys · Clergy · Firefighters · CASAs	· Have reasonable cause to believe	· Mental health/ patient · Clergy/penitent · Attorney/client
PENNSYLVANIA §23-6311(a),(b)	X	X	X	X	X		· Funeral directors · Christian Science practitioners · Clergy	· Have reasonable cause to suspect	· Clergy/penitent
RHODE ISLAND §§40-11-3(a) 40-11-6(a) 40-11-11	X					X		· Have reasonable cause to know or suspect	· Attorney/client
SOUTH CAROLINA §§20-7-510(A) 20-7-550	X	X	X	X	X		· Judges · Funeral home directors and employees · Christian Science practitioners · Film processors · Religious healers · Substance abuse treatment staff	· Have reason to believe	· Attorney/client · Priest/penitent
SOUTH DAKOTA §§26-8A-3 26-8A-15	X	X	X	X	X		· Chemical dependency counselors · Religious healers · Parole or court services officers · Employees of domestic abuse shelters	· Have reasonable cause to suspect
TENNESSEE §§37-1-403(a) 37-1-605(a) 37-1-411	X	X	X	X	X	X	· Judges · Neighbors · Relatives · Friends · Religious healers	· Knowledge of/reasonably know · Have reasonable cause to suspect
TEXAS Family Code §§261.101(a)-(c) 261.102	X			X		X	· Juvenile probation or detention officers · Employees or clinics that provide reproductive services	· Have cause to believe
UTAH §§62A-4a-403(1)-(3) 62A-4a-412(5)	X					X		· Have reason to believe · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result	· Clergy/penitent
VERMONT tit. 33, §4913(a)	X	X	X	X	X		· Camp administrators and counselors · Probation officers	· Have reasonable cause to believe
VIRGINIA §63.1-248.3(A) 63.1-248.11	X	X	X	X	X		· Mediators · Christian Science practitioners · Probation officers · CASAs	· Have reason to suspect
WASHINGTON §§26.44.030 (1), (2) 26.44.060(3)	X	X	X	X	X		· Any adult with whom a child resides · Responsible living skills program staff	· Have reasonable cause to believe
WEST VIRGINIA §§49-6A-2 49-6A-7	X	X	X	X	X		· Clergy · Religious healers · Judges, family law masters or magistrates · Christian Science practitioners	· Reasonable cause to suspect · When believe · Have observed	· Attorney/client
WISCONSIN §48.981(2), (2m)(c), (2m)(d)	X	X	X	X	X		· Alcohol or drug abuse counselors · Mediators · Financial and employment planners · CASAs	· Have reasonable cause to suspect · Have reason to believe
WYOMING §§14-3-205(a) 14-3-210						X		· Know or have reasonable cause to believe or suspect · Have observed conditions which would reasonably result	· Attorney/client · Physician/patient · Clergy/penitent
TOTALS, ALL STATES	48	40	44	46	41	18	N/A	N/A	26

Readers should not rely on this summary for legal advice.

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Love, Scully

hillary_step

What Scully wrote....lol
The issue is one of ‘ecclesiastical privilege’ which some states / countries acknowledge where it comes to child abuse and some do not. What Brown stated in the interview that you mention was that if 'Ceaser' requires such reportage then the WTS abides by this decision, where it does not require reportage of such matters, it is left to the individual concerned to do so. He has also publicly acknowledged in the past that there have been instances where a matter of child-abuse should have been reported to the authorities, as they occurred within a State which required it to be reported but it was not. Rather than apologize and risk a law suit, he blamed such occasions on elders who in his charming words, 'Screw-up", rather than an unethical, dangerous and flawed WTS policy
At present law-making authorities are under the impression that the WTS abides by its public statements but they are not entirely aware that the WTS advises elders in ALL situations to telephone WTS Legal IMMEDIATELY when a case of child-abuse is bought to their notice. This is a ruling that applies around the world and not just the USA. Apart from the unethical behavior in clear moving to protect he WTS Corporations from adverse publicity rather than concern itself with the welfare of its ‘little ones’, the dichotomy between the public statement and the private practice are what persons like Barbara Anderson and Bill Bowen are seeking to force a change over.
Barbara Anderson was disfellowshipped after seeking public attention regarding this issue after many frustrating years of attempting an internal change within the WTS corridors of power, of which she was privy. Brown, announced to the newspapers that she had been coincidentally disfellowshipped for matters that had nothing to do with child-abuse, clearly implying a moral lapse on her part. She is suing the WTS and its representatives for slander. They will no doubt claim that she was DF’d for ‘apostacy’ and not for publicizing their shady agenda, but they are going to have a very tough time proving this, whereas their slander is a matter of public record.
Theodore Jaracz, the architect and vigorous defender of many of WTS policies has himself been accused of child-abuse, though no public evidence has been forthcoming as yet to accompany this accusation. One thing is certain, even if he did not personally abuse children, he abused them by consistently insisting on adherence to policies that have ruined many children’s lives. For this, may he rot in hell.
HS
DJ

Scully,
Thanks. I'll get back to you in a year or two....once I've got that chart all straightened out! LOL....thanks for your effort but it is much to read without playing eyeball tennis out of bounds. LOL, you are a dear Scully! I will do my best to figure it out! Love, dj
Hillary,
I take it that you understand my laughter at Scully's attempt to assist me. I love her, anyway! I suppose I am being lazy and would prefer a little list! LOL !! I am aware of those things you have stated and couldn't agree more with everything you've said! I just had a conversation with my elderly mom last night who did see the CBS broadcast as well as the Dateline interview....she is insisting that the laws of the land are being adhered to, without understanding that the laws are insufficient. I want desperately to help her to see that. I know that she would inderstand that some things are a matter of integrity and morality ....whether it is a law or not. Love to you, dj
hillary_step

DJ,
The problem is that most JW's are not elders, abusers, or abused so they do not know the procedures involved and of course trust that all is well in Never-Never Land. It clearly is not. I can tell you that many, many elders who still speak to me...lol, are deeply concerned at their own exposure as they do not trust the WTS to be loyal to them.
I am quite sure that shortly a change in policy will be announced. It will of course be announced as a new 'flash' of light from God, who presumably has been quite content to watch children being abused both by sexual perverts and theological perverts until now. The WTS are Masters of 'spin' ideology. Only they could blame the 1975 debacle on their own adherents and get away with it.
HS
DJ

Yes, Hillary...I totally agree about the elders being a scapegoat for the most part, anyway. My dad (who is dying) has been friends with a wonderful elder named, Benny DiSantis for many years. He is a kind old Italian...broken English speaking man. I remember that whenever he spoke at the kh, which is quite often.....no one could understand anything that he said, except my pop who came from Italy as well. I cannnot imagine Benny ever allowing molestation to go on. However, I do believe that if he called the legal dept. and was told to "Leave it Jehovah" he would do so. I guess that just brings me back to my original question though? I live in Pennsylvania.....I have to wonder if Benny has been told to hush. I have to figure out that LARGE chart of Scully's to see just what my state law is. I will do that later.... I have been on this computer for too much of my day already....LOL...as the laundry piles up...Thanks, love, dj
Big Tex

Wow Scully, this is fantastic! What a resource you are. I am going to print this off for reference in the future. Thank you so much!
Scully

DJ:
I apologize for the size of the chart... I copied and pasted it from the website I referenced at the top of my post. I did try to make it smaller but was not able to re-format it.
About ecclesiastical privilege: the WTS and many elders rely on this as a loophole to weasel out of doing the right thing, namely what is in the best interest of the child involved. By definition, ecclesiastical privilege requires that a minister or priest who has heard confession NOT repeat what they have heard in confession to ANYONE. Period. That's it, that's all.
Does this happen with JW elders? First of all, the formal confession process - as it exists in the Catholic church - is a concept that JWs denounce as repugnant and unscriptural. So how can they claim its use when they don't even endorse it?
Secondly, take a close look at the procedure that is used by JWs: an abused child goes to the elders to report that a congregation member has molested them. Is this a confession of sin?? No, it is a report of someone who has been violated to a spiritual leader, with the expectation that the wrong will be set right. It usually occurs in the presence of TWO elders, which further does not conform to the strict definition of ecclesiastical privilege. When the elders decide to form an investigative committee and approach the accused, that is another breach of anything resembling ecclesiastical privilege.
If the accused confesses to the molestation, a judicial committee is formed, bringing in at least a THIRD elder into the equation. Sometimes the investigative committee is completely different from the judicial committee, so that means at least THREE MORE people are told about the accusations. If the decision is to disfellowship the offender, he or she has the right to demand an appeal, meaning that another judicial committee must be formed, therefore at least THREE MORE elders become involved.
This procedure - in no way, shape or form - bears any resemblance to the strict definitions (as set out in law) of ecclesiastical privilege. There have been two cases to my knowledge in Canada that have been precedent setting in their respective Provinces, that state unequivocally that JW procedure does not constitute ecclesiastical privilege, and therefore, it cannot be claimed by them.
If a child approaches an elder to report being molested by a congregation member, that elder has a "common law" duty to report it to the authorities. This is above and beyond the normal moral and legal expectation incumbent on any citizen. This was covered in the preliminary hearing in the Berry case in NH.
added by edit: Oh, and one more thing: ecclesiastical privilege is for cases where the WRONGDOER confesses to a crime/sin/whatever, not where a traumatized victim goes to a priest/minister for help to seek justice.
Love, Scully
shadow

A good resource for the US
http://www.calib.com/nccanch/
This is a federal government site and includes all state statutes
DJ

That is the link to the precise location for state by state laws for reporting abuse. I've found it!! Thanks Shadow, for the site.
Scully,
Ohhhhh, I know.....it's just terrible. Thanks for all of your help!

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