What has changed since January 2009? (page 2)

KerryKing

Thanks for those links, very interesting timing indeed after the Australian Royal Commission!

slimboyfat

Queen Zenobia is no longer king of the south

slimboyfat, I had no idea what that meant, so I googled it. It seems that there was indeed some sort of a change in interpretation, but I wasn't able, from the sparse amount about it, to figure out what. What did they used to say about her and what was the change, and when did they change it?

Earnest

In the article "The King of the North" in the Time of the End in the May 2020 Watchtower, pp.2-7, paragraph 5 says :

At some time during the second century C.E., the true Christian congregation began to be overrun by false Christians ... From that time until the late 19th century, there was no organized group of God’s servants on earth... Why is that fact significant? It indicates that what we read about the king of the north and the king of the south could not apply to rulers or kingdoms that held power from sometime in the 2nd century to the second half of the 19th century. There was no organized group of God’s people for them to attack.*

The footnote (*) reads :

For the reason stated here, it no longer seems appropriate to list Roman Emperor Aurelian (270-275 C.E.) as a “king of the north” or Queen Zenobia (267-272 C.E.) as a “king of the south.” This updates what was published in chapters 13 and 14 of the [1999] book Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy! [pp.240-241]

The identification of Zenobia with the King of the South in the third century C.E. had been consistent since 1891 (in the volume Thy Kingdom Come, pp.32,33). You can read more about her in Pay Attention to Daniel's Prophecy!, pp.252-255.

NotFormer

Earnest , thanks again! I don't want to go down the rabbit hole of end-times prophecy and apocalyptic writings; I just want to understand the previous WT position on this point. I had a quick leaf through some of the Daniel book. Are they double dipping on the King of the North/King of the South prophecy, giving it multiple fulfilments?

slimboyfat, I guess you are being somewhat flippant bringing up that change, but how major was that understanding in the average JW's belief system? Would anyone have noticed the change? You obviously did. Would the new light have been the subject of watercooler conversations by JWs?

slimboyfat

Maybe it was a gender issue because it’s hard to understand how a queen can be a king unless … 🤔

Me, flippant? I resemble that remark. 😁

But Earnest supplies the goods. 👍

NotFormer

Earnest, isn't there a platitude along the lines of "Jehovah has always had an organisation"? Doesn't that fly in the face of their reason for dropping Zenobia and others from prophetic consideration? Or does that underlying reason basically negate that platitude (using that term for want of a better one)?

Does the phrase exist in the official literature in some form?

slimboyfat

I think the saying is that “Jehovah always works through an organisation”. Which means, not that there always is such an organisation for Jehovah to work through, but rather that whenever Jehovah chooses to say or do something then the mechanism that he uses is an organisation, not, and this is the whole of the saying, individuals acting on their own. [Which is the cue for people to post dozens of biblical counterexamples of God using individuals.]

slimboyfat

From June 1st Watchtower 2011

Biblical evidence, however, shows that God has always used his organization as he carries out his purpose. He organized his worshippers in ancient Israel, and he organized the early Christians in their worship. Is it not logical, therefore, to conclude that Jehovah God still directs his people, as he did in the past? Yes, having his worshippers organized and unified is an expression of his loving care for them. Today, Jehovah uses his organization in accomplishing his purpose toward mankind. How can his organization be identified? Consider the following criteria.

NotFormer

slimboyfat, when I first read your reference to Zenobia I was totally confused. I get that the main irony is the gender bending. I'd never heard of her or that she was even seriously held to have been a candidate for King of the South. Even that is confused: Syria is north of Israel/Judah/Judea.

What has changed since January 2009?

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