Where is the school for the 144,000?

by RULES & REGULATIONS 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS

    The Watchtower has many schools to teach their members on how to become more effective in various assignments in Jehovah's Organization. They are trained to strengthen and help the congregations and branches around the world. Here is a list of some of the schools the Society run:

    Gilead School

    Kingdom Ministry School

    Pioneer Service School

    School for Branch Committee Members and Their Wives

    School for Circuit Overseers and Their Wives

    School for Congregation Elders

    School for Kingdom Evangelizers

    I don't see a school for the nearly 21,182 ( 2020 yearbook figures) who are called and chosen” to rule with Christ in the Kingdom are referred to as a “little flock.” (Revelation 17:14; Luke 12:32)

    If there really were a ''little flock'', wouldn't they have Watchtower Society schools, meetings and teaching programs?

    Why aren't they giving talks all over the world? Why didn't I ever see one at my kingdom hall? Why aren't they taking the lead in the ministry work? If some of them are female, why can't they be ministerial servants, elders, and be in on judicial meetings?

    For some reason, I think there is no such thing as a ''little flock''.

  • was a new boy
    was a new boy

    And can the144,000 'rulers' ever be voted out of office? And be thrown out of Heaven?

    Where is the school for the traumatized survivors of Armageddon?

  • wozza
    wozza

    Yeah why indeed, since the WTS rave on about a people being prepared for Jehovah ,why are the remnant of 144K not being prepared specially and taught how to bring the great crowd into the new system and also taught how to become rulers in heaven,since the women have not had the "priviledge" of eldership ?

    So you can have classes for the window cleaner elder but not for members of the 144k as a group who are going to rule and heal the world?

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    You get the sense from all this that the WT really sees the topic of the 144,000 (and partaking at the Memorial) as directly related to their (earthly) rulership over the R&F. And they don't wish to share that with anyone.

    There is another possible irony in all this. Some commentaries understand Revelation chapter 7 to be an excursus of sorts. The topic of the 144,000 (Rev 7:1-8) is understood to be an expansion on the question raised in the 5th seal (Rev 6:9-11). And the topic of the great crowd (Rev 7:9-17) is an expansion on the question raised in the 6th seal (Rev 6:17).

    If understood that way, the 144,000 are martyrs (Rev 6:11). Which, by implication, means that none of the GB, past or present, are of that group.

  • RULES & REGULATIONS
    RULES & REGULATIONS
    Bobcat
    You get the sense from all this that the WT really sees the topic of the 144,000 (and partaking at the Memorial) as directly related to their (earthly) rulership over the R&F. And they don't wish to share that with anyone.

    Reading some of your posts, you seem to have way more Bible knowledge that I'll ever have. Having said that, are you implying that there are literal, breathing human members on this earth that are part of the 144,000 and that the Governing Body dismiss them so that the ''remnant'' are silenced and put off to the side?

    I believe that the Governing Body let members partake and use the numbers to show that the ''remnant'' are real, but deep down they don't really believe they are real or else they would be put to good use.

  • waton
    waton
    If understood that way, the 144,000 are martyrs (Rev 6:11). Which, by implication, means that none of the GB, past or present, are of that group.

    good point Bc. to hammer that home, Rev 20:3 stipulates that those that rule with Christ are killed by the axe.

    no morphine-soothed drifting off in brooklyn or warwick. No higher calling for past presidents either.

    the first will be last.

  • smiddy3
    smiddy3

    Aren`t those that now claim to be of the anointed and partake of the bread & wine classed as having mental problems / or still have teachings of Christendom still ingrained in their head ?

    If they do, it is only because of inadequate training given them by the R&F.

    It is also evidence of another failed teaching of JW`s , remember the numbers for many years hovered around the 8000 mark ,then sometime within the last 20 years or so it`s been gradually rising to where it is today.

    The numbers were supposed to keep getting less and less till there was only a handful around at Armageddon.

  • waton
    waton

    Partaking in wt land is equated with membership in the 144 000 remnant.

    John 6, and Jesus' serving the bread and wine to people with an earthly hope shows that

    wt is totally wrong that the anointed and partaking are exclusively inked.

    partaking is to get the ransom, which is to restore paradise-like perfection.

    all christians should partake.

    being sealed out of that pool, is a confidential matter for some angels.

    The interdiction by wt to freely take of the bread and wine deprives jws of the ransom and eternal life.

    A school for partakers? yeah, let them learn, teach them the 3 Rs, to really read , reason on their bibles,

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Hi R&R,

    are you implying that there are literal, breathing human members on this earth that are part of the 144,000 and that the Governing Body dismiss them so that the ''remnant'' are silenced and put off to the side?

    Actually, no. No one alive on earth is of the 144,000. But some explanation is in order.

    The 144,000 of Rev 7:1-8 are a sub-group "sealed out of every tribe of the sons of Israel." (Rev 7:4 rNWT) "Out of" is the Greek preposition ek. It is used numerous times in Rev 7:4-8 to describe the grouping of 12,000 "out of" each tribe. WT would have you believe that the 144,000 make up that whole nation. But "out of" indicates that they are a smaller group or sub-group "out of" a larger group called "every tribe of the sons of Israel." This can be seen from Rev 7:9 where the "great crowd" are described as being "out of" (same preposition) every nation and tribe and people and language."

    It is easy to see that the "great crowd" are a sub-group "out of" a larger grouping that comprises all of humanity. In the same way, "every tribe of the sons of Israel" is a sub-group "out of" a larger group comprised of all of humanity. And the 144,000 are a sub-group "out of" the sub-group that is called every tribe of the sons of Israel."

    Now, some think that "every tribe of the sons of Israel" refers to natural Jews. Some (like me) believe they are Christians. But that is unimportant for this post. What is important is to see that the 144,000 are a sub-grouping of "every tribe of the sons of Israel."

    As I pointed out above, the WT teaches that the 144,000 are the whole of "the sons of Israel." And they teach that only these 144,000 are anointed with God's Spirit. And from that they want JWs to assume that the leadership is of this 144,000 and that the leadership is anointed with God's Spirit. Every one else are merely friends of these and need to be subservient to these ones if they want to gain life and be friends of God.

    This is the gist of the WT's power structure over all of JWs. And this is why they do their best to discourage anyone else from thinking they are anointed and from partaking at the Memorial (which the WT sees as the sole privilege of the 144,000).

    The truth is that being baptized in the Spirit is part and parcel with the New Covenant. But it is available to all. (Acts 2:38-39) It is available to all who have faith. But JWs (most of them anyways) have had that faith drilled out of them by the WT. The WT finds them more useful without it. Eventually there has to be some repercussions for that for the GB and the WT. (Jas 3:1)

    The giving of the Spirit was the one thing that would make the New Covenant better than the Old Covenant. This was foretold by the prophets. (Jer 31:31-34; Ezek 36:24-29) And this is why Jesus chided Nicodemus for being a "teacher in Israel" and yet not understanding this coming change. (Jn 3:5, 9-10) Jesus said that being born of "water and spirit" was a prerequisite to 'entering the kingdom' (Jn 3:5), which the disciples later understood to mean 'being saved' and 'entering into life.' (Mt 19:16, 17, 23-25)

    I'm sorry for the length of this post, but it is necessary to see that. (And I want any lurkers to see this also.) The WT wants its followers to think that being born of the Spirit is only necessary to be in the New Covenant and to rule with Jesus in heaven. There is truth in the idea that being born of the Spirit is part of being in the New Covenant. But the idea that only 144,000 would be in the New Covenant is a huge distortion of what the NT teaches. Paul spoke of those in the New Covenant eventually outnumbering those in the Old Covenant. (Gal 4:21-27)

    But back to the 144,000. Rev 7:1-8; 14:1-5 say nothing about being born of the Spirit. If "every tribe of the sons of Israel" does represent Christianity, then, according to NT teaching, all of them would be born of the Spirit, not just the 144,000. The 144,000, as a sub-group, are distinct from the larger group in some way. They have some experience that is unique to them. And if what I said in my previous post is correct, that is, if Rev 7:1-8 is an expansion on Rev 6:9-11, then, the 144,000 represent the "full number" of those who are martyred as Christians. Their "song" that only they know (Rev 14:3) would likely be related to that unique experience of being faithful Christian martyrs.

    And thus, assuming all this to be the case, no one alive on earth would be of that group, simply due to the fact that they were still alive. God would know who He would allow to be of that group. (Compare Mt 20:22, 23) And He would also know whether some who had been martyred were qualified as such. For example, during Nero's purge of Christians in 64-68 CE, there were likely Christians who were swept up and slaughtered in the persecution but were living double lives and/or secretly unfaithful in some way. Such ones would not fit the description of the 144,000 in Rev 14:4, 5. So that it would be impossible for any human to calculate how far along it was in the gathering of the 144,000. The "sealing" of them (Rev 7:3, 4) would indicate when they had been included in that number. (And thus, had been martyred.) Only God (and possibly Christ) would have inside information on the progress of the gathering of the 144,000. (And thus, the "sealing" of Rev 7:3, 4 is no secondary anointing which the WT teaches but the NT says nothing about. (Compare Eph 4:30)

    I'm sorry for the long winded explanation. But I know that there are numerous lurkers who would find this subject of interest since the WT controls their life as Christians with all of their distortions.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    Just as an aside, above I mentioned the account in Rev 7:1-8 being an expansion on the question raised in the 5th seal (Rev 6:9-11). Notice how that view helps balance out a chiastic diagram of Revelation here.

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