hoser - "Do these relatives actually believe it’s the truth or are they stuck in a jw social stratification prison?"
Yes.
They actually believe it’s the truth...
...because they're stuck in a JW social stratification prison.
I have come to the conclusion that a lot of JWs don't care if the end is near.
by mickbobcat 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Vidiot
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Vidiot
Not unlike how like the WT leadership knows it's wrong...
...but believes it's True...
...at the same time.
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Disillusioned JW
Hi Abraham1, your link of (https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(21)00648-4/fulltext) has a problem. Both times in this thread when you posted the link the final ")" got accidentally included into the link, thus preventing the link from loading the page. However, after I deleted the ")" then what remained of the link worked. [I wasn't able to load it until a short while ago, after I discovered the cause of the problem.]
The article partially supports what you said about the Covid-19 vaccines not making a difference - but only in some contexts. The article also says the Covid-19 vaccines provide some degree of protection in some regards. The science journal article article in part says the following (I have added some boldface for emphasis of statements saying the vaccines provide some protection).
"Interpretation
Vaccination reduces the risk of delta variant infection and accelerates viral clearance. Nonetheless, fully vaccinated individuals with breakthrough infections have peak viral load similar to unvaccinated cases and can efficiently transmit infection in household settings, including to fully vaccinated contacts. Host–virus interactions early in infection may shape the entire viral trajectory....Introduction...Vaccination was found to be effective in reducing household transmission of the alpha variant (B.1.1.7) by 40–50%, 1 and infected, vaccinated individuals had lower viral load in the upper respiratory tract (URT) than infections in unvaccinated individuals, 2 which is indicative of reduced infectiousness. 3 , 4 However, the delta variant (B.1.617.2), which is more transmissible than the alpha variant, 5 , 6 is now the dominant strain worldwide. After a large outbreak in India, the UK was one of the first countries to report a sharp rise in delta variant infection. Current vaccines remain highly effective at preventing admission to hospital and death from delta infection. 7 However, vaccine effectiveness against infection is reduced for delta, compared with alpha, 8 , 9 and the delta variant continues to cause a high burden of cases even in countries with high vaccination coverage.....Discussion
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Our findings help to explain how and why the delta variant is being transmitted so effectively in populations with high vaccine coverage. Although current vaccines remain effective at preventing severe disease and deaths from COVID-19, our findings suggest that vaccination alone is not sufficient to prevent all transmission of the delta variant in the household setting, where exposure is close and prolonged. Increasing population immunity via booster programmes and vaccination of teenagers will help to increase the currently limited effect of vaccination on transmission, but our analysis suggests that direct protection of individuals at risk of severe outcomes, via vaccination and non-pharmacological interventions, will remain central to containing the burden of disease caused by the delta variant." -
DATA-DOG
Glad you’re gone as you fail to mention the unprecedented number of teenagers who have suffered, and died in some cases, from Myocarditis which is directly linked to the Covid Jabs.
You talk a big game, circle the wagons and circle back during discussions that you claim to want to engage in, but in the end the propaganda you present, like the above, reeks of JW “adjustments in understanding.”
Maybe you are a severely risk averse nutter who is so afraid of the world that you don’t care who dies as long as you feel safe, but that’s shitty. Don’t act like you care if you can look the other way. This is no different than looking the other way while JWs die for refusing blood. Any organization that benefits financially while abusing its “consumers” or attempts to remove free will and create consumers deserves to be called out and held accountable.
Don’t forget to double-mask when you visit the Oregon Coast…if you’re allowed to go outside that is. Maybe you should move to Australia.
DD
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LongHairGal
MICKBOBCAT:
So, yes, I believe affluent JWs do not care if the end comes and Do see the religion as a social network.
However, if JWs aren’t doing well they definitely are wishing and hoping for Armageddon. There is an excellent thread on Reddit:..’Work Part Time and Pioneer, Jehovah will Provide For You’. There are so many tragic stories on there! One particular post is something I have heard:..JWs now pioneering, working part time crappy jobs and not putting anything into retirement who KNOW they are not going to be able to make it come retirement but STILL won’t do anything about it..hoping Jehovah will bring about the End so it won’t matter.
Yes, they want the system to end because they know they won’t be able to support themselves.
I always had a theory some JWs aren’t just lazy but really don’t want to hack it in a worldly environment. They like the controlled environment of the congregation and service groups where people are ‘polite’ to them whereas in the real ‘world’ people aren’t necessarily polite and a person has to ‘pull their weight’. Some of these JWs do not WANT to pull their weight so they take the gamble to be in the ministry and hope the End comes so they don’t have to deal with the consequences.
If I were around JWs now I would be walking a gauntlet of deadbeats with their hands out. No thanks!
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hoser
LongHairGal:
Some jws just don’t get it. There are some non jws that just don’t get it either to be fair. Somebody actually has to do the WORK.
One jw elder in our congregation was all upset that he lost his job. He went on and on about how his boss this and that. In reality it probably was his co workers that wanted him gone. In a workplace high performers eventually tire of subsidizing dead weight. This elder expected his regular vacation PLUS time off for conventions and his elder indoctrination schools. I’m fairly confident that one or more of his co workers were quite pissed at picking up the slack when this elder was away for “spiritual” reasons. He called it persecution. I call it entitlement.
I’ve been in those situations before as a subsidizer of workplace slackers. I’ve quit more than one job because I just got plain worn down doing other peoples work for them for no extra pay. Guaranteed one or more of his co workers quit or were going to quit so the boss took care of the root problem. By the way this elder recently sold his house to “simplify”.
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luckynedpepper
I dont think its about "wanting" or "not wanting". Who wouldnt want everlasting life, in a tropical paradise, eating figs and cheese all day with a beautiful woman (or man) I think its about a realistic (conversely, overly optimistic) expectation of when these things might occur.
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pistolpete
LongHairGal
I always had a theory some JWs aren’t just lazy but really don’t want to hack it in a worldly environment. They like the controlled environment of the congregation and service groups where people are ‘polite’ to them whereas in the real ‘world’ people aren’t necessarily polite and a person has to ‘pull their weight’.
This actually makes a lot of sense. The jws can't deal with reality.
In fact, that's the same reason why they continue to believe in the everlasting life, paradise earth, soon to come promise. Because they don't want to deal with the reality that they will eventually get Old, Wrinkled, lose everyone they love and finally die.
It's a harsh reality but we have to be brave and accept it because it has been going on for thousands if not millions of year to all humans. Not one human has ever escaped getting old and dying, unless you want to believe the stories of Hercules, Thor, Jesus, - and the Paradise Earth that the Watchtower promises.
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mickbobcat
Most JWs I have met are of two types, the ones who actually do the work and sacrifice their life now so they can pioneer or do what ever it is in the cult. Others are those who are usually elders who have businesses and give to the cult so no one can say they are seeking money and wealth. I have seen elders lie cheat and steal for their own gain. One elder, I will call Norm G. was a dry wall hanger. His mother in law came to live with him in her old age and suddenly Norm G. Bought a piece of property and gave half to the congregation and got the cong to split and his house was next to the new KH and cong. He suddenly bought cars vans for service and built a 2500 sf home with a MIL apt on the back. He put in a huge pole barn and went into the dry wall business for himself. He bought a forklift and bought large amounts of drywall and other items for jobs he was bidding on. He said his MIL had no money. Bull shit. that was because she had several kids. They did not get a dime. Before the MIL move in, he drove a beat up old station wagon with his stilts and tools in the back, lived in a 1200 sf home he built and wore older cloths. After he started to live the high life and built a business. Most of us knew where the money came from.
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Simon
So many come out with things like "even if it isn't true, it's still the best way of life" that it just screams "I don't really believe, but I'm justifying it to myself".
It isn't even true - there are orders of magnitude more moral and good people who are not JWs than who are.
The longer people put off leaving, the harder it is to do so. Too many sacrifice their children's future to avoid admitting their own or their parents poor choices.