separation church&state

waton

OTTAWA -- The Supreme Court of Canada says a Jehovah's Witness who was expelled from his Calgary congregation cannot take his case to a judge. Canada CTV news.

StephaneLaliberte

I'm not surprised at all. The problem is not that he was disfellowshipped. the problem is how they treat disfellowshipped ones.

Instead, they should be brought to court on grounds of "Hate Speech" against an identifiable group based on their religious beliefs; that is, the ex-jehovah's witnesses. In fact, they have disfellowshipped so many of us that we actually do represent a sizable group that should be protected.

You have doubts? Replace "Apostates" by "jews" or "Homosexuals" or "blacks" in the following quotes found in watchtower literature:

Apostate does not have your well-being at heart.
Apostates feigning love
Apostate propaganda [..]‘s basis is envy and hatred
cunning spirit;
apostates are mentally diseased
They may pretend to care about others, but in reality, they are selfish.
presumptuous attitude to warp their thinking
Modern-day apostates display characteristics similar to those of the Devil
They are not interested in learning about Jehovah or in serving him.

This would serve as a precedent for other groups such as the mormons, Hasidic Jews, Amishes, etc.

Simon

Instead, they should be brought to court on grounds of "Hate Speech" against an identifiable group based on their religious beliefs; that is, the ex-jehovah's witnesses.

No, they shouldn't, because hate speech laws are already bad enough without inventing more vague offences.

Seriously - being called "selfish" is hate speech? What are we, 5 year olds?

There are real, genuine cases of hate speech that happen - such as religions that teach jews are evil and should be killed. They are the kind of things that should be addressed, not the non-crime of being accused of not being interested in serving Jehovah - I thought that was a given, how can it be an insult?

Finkelstein

Just to clarify the matter with this fellow in Calgary, he wanted to sue the WTS for financial losses due to business associates who were JWS, stop doing business with him for being Dfed.

The WTS does impose social prejudicial hatred upon people who were once a baptized member in their religion who under self determined choice decided to leave.

This is how and why millions of families have been broken apart by this one unique religious organization.

The guy didn't really have a solid case based mostly upon a loss of business and possible financial loss.

redvip2000

There is a reason, why the Watchtower already allows current members to interact with DFed people for business purposes. They have the process pretty buttoned up.

They are not liable, because they have no impositions on business interaction. They will claim that if the member does not want to interact with a DFed person for business, they are doing it on their own accord. And they are actually right.

cofty

Hate speech laws are fascist.

sparrowdown

WT have always been very careful to word anything to do with De Effing in a "spiritual" sense in the context of religious freedoms. Who can touch them?

We all know and have both witnessed and experienced what happens within families, congs and individual members. The "lovely nice" JWs will gleefully ruin the reputations of innocent people, turn parents against children and vice-versa, discriminate against them and generally make people's lives hell, but, technically, whether you really "got it" at the time or not, you are told about what happens to people that "turn their backs on" Gee Hova and the reasons for expulsion all JWs are aware and have gone along with it themselves at some point. So, I'm not sure what a western democratic court is supposed to do about it. Especially when WT releases official statements like "normal family relationships continue" blah blah.

It's a sticky wicket for people but I think the only answer is to stand up to these religious bullies by moonwalking away backwards giving the double finger to them as you go. Crime and abuse victims though are a different story they should by all means lawyer up and go for the jugular.

scratchme1010

The Supreme Court of Canada says a Jehovah's Witness who was expelled from his Calgary congregation cannot take his case to a judge. Canada CTV news.

They might have better luck if they can make a case that the WT is a corporation.

waton

Hate speech laws are fascist.

agreed, a very good point. Free speech is legally suppressed, branded as an offence. but

I wished Orphan Crow or other computer nerds here would revive the well discussed threads pertaining to this particular case, which is about other issues as sparrowdown touched on.

StephaneLaliberte

Hate speech laws are fascist.

Fascism is about one central authority oppressing the opposition. Democracy needs to prevent such things and this is exactly why such laws are there, to prevent these extremes. The leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses not only teach hatred for their ex-believers; they actively harm the group through shunning. They even ENFORCE the emotional abuse by shunning those who do not uphold the shunning practice.

This is bullying specifically targeted at an identifiable group and falls within the definition of hate speech.

They often say: Well, the believer knew what he was getting into when he became baptised. Not only is this not a valid reasoning for minors being baptized, it is not valid with adults who no longer believe in the teaching. Without belief, there is no consent; without consent, the only thing left is abuse.

separation church&state

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