Child Sacrifice and Exodus 22:29

by joey jojo 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  joey jojo

  Im not a bible scholar - lets just get that out the way first. I recently came across Exodus 22:29, which is an interesting scripture that seems to require Israelites to sacrifice their firstborn to god.

  I searched this forum and cant seem to find any topic about it so I thought Id start one and see what you guys think. Im sure it probably has been discussed here already, but I cant find it.

  Anyway, Exodus 22:29 says:

  You shall not delay to offer from the fulness [sic] of your harvest and from the outflow of your presses. The first-born of your sons you shall give to me. You shall do likewise with your oxen and with your sheep: seven days it shall be with its dam; on the eighth day you shall give it to me. (RSV)

  When reading online forums like quora, reddit etc- there are a lot of apologists, including JW's that are doing their white knight duty to defend this verse. Its always funny to see jw's copying and pasting from wt literature without even really taking a deeper look at the subject.

  However, the verse seems to clearly put firstborn humans into the same category of sacrifice as first harvest produce and firstborn animals. They must be sacrificed to god.

  The arguments as to what this verse actually means seem to revolve around the definition of what is a sacrifice (death), and what is a redemption - or something that dies in place of something else. But then that begs the questiion, if something isnt redeemed, must it then die as intended? If it wasnt for the redemption, would god expect it as a sacrifice?

  A verse at Ezekiel 20:25-26 is often cited alongside the Exodus verse, which seems to validate the that the Israelites were, in fact, required to sacrifice their firstborn. It says:

  I also gave them bad laws,
  Laws that were not good
  and rules by which they could not live.
  When they set aside the first issue of every womb
  I defiled them by their very gifts—
  that I might render them desolate,
  that they might know that I am Yhwh.

  In this bizarre scripture, god is admitting to designing bad laws just to 'stick it' to the israelites. I am interested to hear what the brains trust here has to say.

  Here is a good article about this topic:

  https://www.thetorah.com/article/giving-your-firstborn-son-to-god
  
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  liam

  joey jojo

  there are a lot of apologists, including JW's that are doing their white knight duty to defend this verse.

  Bart Ehrman has said that the majority of bible scholars will not step into a controversy where a bible verse plainly contradicts the current ideology that God is Omni-Benevolent.

  So usually they use the phrase, “This verse has an obscure meaning”

  But many Bible Scholars say the best way to understand a verse like this is to take a good honest look at the personality of Jehovah/ aka/ YHWH. And see if the bible verse in question is telling us the complete opposite of what modern Christians believe God is.

  From the very Beginning, we learn that the God of the bible has a very warped view of all Human and animal life. He gets some type of arousal seeing the shedding of innocent Human and animal life.

  For example in the very first bible book notice how he reacts to Noah sacrificing innocent animals right after the flood. Different bible translations use different colorful words but they convey the same meaning. He gets some type of arousal to the smell of BLOOD.

  Genesis 8:20-22

  And Noah built an altar to the Lord, and took of every [ceremonially] clean animal and of every clean bird and offered burnt offerings on the altar. 21 The Lord smelled the pleasing aroma [a soothing, satisfying scent]

  BRG

  And the Lord smelled a sweet savour;

  DARBY

  And Jehovah smelled the sweet odour

  In Exodus 22:29 CJB bible translation, notice that YHWH says “The firstborn of your sons you are to give to me. But after that He says;

  You are to do the same with your oxen and your sheep — it is to stay with its mother seven days, and on the eighth day you are to give it to me.

  The verse seems to indicate that as soon as parents have their first born, they can keep it for seven days, after which on the eighth day they hand the baby over to him, just like the oxen and sheep, which were sacrificed as a burnt offering. Certainly the baby was not given to the priests for them to raise up a bunch of babies.

  In the story of Jephthah offering his daughter as a burnt sacrifice it tells us;

  Judges 11:31 whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the Lord’s, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering.’

  In the bible a Burnt offering is a sacrifice Burnt offering. The bible says nothing about the daughter vowing to remain single and live with the priests.

  Then there’s the thousands of innocent animals that were slaughter for Jehovah pleasure.

  1 Kings 8:62-63 Then the king, and all Israel with him, offered sacrifice before the Lord. Solomon offered as peace offerings to the Lord 22,000 oxen and 120,000 sheep.

  Think about that for a minute and imagine the effect slaughtering 142,000 thousand innocent animals had on the minds of those doing the slaughtering. And also all the people watching the slaughtering for the pleasure of the God they worship.

  Today slaughtering a few cows in a slaughter house causes many men and women to have mental breakdowns.

  This is a 5 minute video of slaughtering a few cows. The first time I saw it, it messed me up for a long time.

  SO THIS IS WARNING TO NOT SEE IT IF SLAUGHTERING ANIMALS AFFECTS YOU

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KezHKbUzy0A

  And last but not least, even Jesus recognized that his father had this thing for spilled blood. Sacrifices and offering were not his thing. Jehovah wanted innocent blood spilled to smell the sweet odor. So he made sure not to step in when they were beating his son to a pulp and crucifying or impaling him.

  Jehovah could have easily and painlessly taken the life of Jesus like Thanos took the life of half the Universe, without any pain, and the Ransom would have been paid, regardless. There was no need for Jesus to suffer the way he did, Unless this God is malevolent and just loves to see humans and animals suffer.

  Hebrews 10:5 EHV

  Therefore when he entered the world, Christ said: Sacrifice and offering you did not desire, but you prepared a body for me.

  So how we want to read that verse in Exodus will depend on you.
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  vienne

  Exodus 13:13 commands them to redeem their firstborn sons. This was done by paying the priests five silver shekels.
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  truthlover123

  when they Israelites came out of egypt, God stated that the firstborn males and animals were to be dedicated to him, not sacrificed. Nations around were sacrificing to false gods one named Molech, ws disgusting to God due to the child sacrifices Lev 20:2 and the Israelites were warned many times not to throw their children into the fire. There are at least 8 scriptures in KIngs that decry this practise . Go to search and enter Molech.

  This sanctification to God for the firstborn males was not sacrifice as Molech, but something akin to service and loyalty to God.
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  joey jojo

  truthlover123
  when they Israelites came out of egypt, God stated that the firstborn males and animals were to be dedicated to him, not sacrificed. Nations around were sacrificing to false gods one named Molech

  Regarding Molech, was Jehovah unhappy because the children were being sacrificed - or that they werent being sacrificed to him exclusively?
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  TonusOH

  The WTS gave us the impression that Jepthah's daughter was given over to service as a sort of Temple worker, part of an apparent group of such young women, who would take a vow of celibacy. I think the latter part is to account for his daughter's request that she be given time to mourn her virginity, or something like that. It's possible that she wanted some time to reflect on her life in the short time left before she was 'given over' to Yahweh.

  This is, after all, the same deity who cannot forgive you for wrongdoing unless something else dies, first.
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  truthlover123

  Vienne is right - there is a lengthy piece as to how this redemption was made, but the firstborn was purchased.

  Some of the gods that were sacrificed to were Dagon and Baal and Molech- 2 Chronicles 34:4 and Judges 16:23. Note that Jesus was the only human sacrifice for the world. No human sacrifices were made that were under God's protection However, if leaving that protection Israel was open to all kinds of bad influences. including child sacrifice but when that occured God was not happy Ezekiel 20:26. They were cut off. Take the 20th Chapter of Ezekiel from vs 4 and read the history of Israel (if not known) how they were a chosen nation out of all on the earth. At vs 39 He is really angry with them. Actually the Books of Kings is a good reference who was a good king and who was bad and the casting off of Israel was back and forth, yet he always forgave them.
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  truthlover123

  JJ: another scripture re "spirit" as being "breath" - Ecclesast 3:19,21 ASV and KJV there is but one, same for animals and mankind
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  liam

  Exodus 13:13 commands them to redeem their firstborn sons. This was done by paying the priests five silver shekels.

  OK, so let me get this straight. There was a provision for paying five shekels to the "Priests" ...Not Jehovah, because Jehovah can’t use silver shekels in the Heavenly Spirit Realm. But to the Priests, and by giving money to the Priests, you could “Spare your Children” from being sacrificed as a burnt Sacrifice.

  Now Why is it that Jephthah didn’t think of this?????

  “Hey Jehovah, Here is 5 silver shekels to redeem my daughter from being a burnt sacrifice.”

  “Daughter, you are free to go live your life”

  Instead the bible in Judges 11 tells us this;

  Jephthah’s daughter finished “bewailing her fate with her friends for two months. Then she returned to her father, “who did as he had vowed.”

  And what did Jephthah VOW?

  Quote; Meanwhile Jephthah had vowed to the Lord that if God would help Israel conquer the Ammonites, then when he returned home in peace,

  The first person coming out of his house to meet him would be sacrificed as a burnt offering

  The Result; she was never married………..because she died early in her Youth! That’s what people say when someone dies at a young age.

  “They didn’t have kids because they died before they had a chance”

  Bible quote; “And after that it became a custom in Israel that the young girls went away for four days each year to lament the fate of Jephthah’s daughter.”

  You don’t “Lament” (To grieve audibly; wail) someone year after year just because she remained single and didn't have kids. You grief, you wail, you cry like hell, when a beautiful submissive, humble, young girl is offered up as a BURNT SACRIFICE to the God you worship.

  Alternative ending

  Jephthah; “Jehovah here are 5 silver shekels to spare my daughter from being sacrificed.

  Jehovah; “Nah Jephthah, can’t do...Your daughter is not a first born, and that only applies to firstborn Males, not females...sorry, but that's the Law.

  Jephthah; “So what am I supposed to do Jehovah?

  Jehovah; “Let me give you a hint Jephthah, I’m smelling a sweet aroma just like in the days of Noah”
  

  
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  truthlover123

  Judges 11:38-40 tells of the rest of her life as she went back to her father and never had intimacy with a man. She was not killed as you say.