What is Self-deception?

by Kosonen 25 Replies latest jw friends

Vidiot

Kosonen - “What is self-deception?”
Identifying as “God’s Exclusive Earthly Organization”?
EasyPrompt

"Forgive me--I might get "stoned," so to speak for asking this, as I have been gone from the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses for some 30 years...
But if we are talking about "self-deception," why are you folks quoting texts from the New World Translation of all places? Isn't it the epitome of self-deception in deception when it comes to translation?
I went to Hebrew school since--not to mention learned Greek in college--and it's horrific. Anyone who uses it as a measure of being honest with themselves is truly on the road of "self deception."
If you must use the Bible as your measure of guidance in life (one does not have to--but if you must) why not use something like the NRSVue? Or the ESV? Or the NIV? Or something like that which is academically sound?
I can tell you that the NWT--that is not the way the Bible reads. The NWT is itself a deception. Why are you using that? Is this not an exJW site or did I miss something?"

What do we need to forgive you for? What did you do?

Maybe you're already "stoned", so to speak.

("Self-deception" isn't the only kind of deception.)

Hey, @AugustHest, how do you say "liar" in Hebrew and Greek? Perhaps with your great wisdom and excellent skills in guiding the blind you can shed some light on the meaning of life and tell us all where you've been our whole lives, since you're obviously the Messiah come to rescue us from the evil writers of the NWT. <said with sarcasm, of course, in case the English doesn't translate well to Hebrew and Greek>

(🤣)
AugustHest

Dear EasyPrompt,
I am not here to promote religion, but to tear down the Watchtower and its teachings. So if you can’t defend why you have chosen to stick with the New World Translation with anything but bullying and teasing (and that’s not a defense--it just shows you’re an Internet bully, and it doesn’t take intelligence or critical thinking to be a bully), fine.

I don’t really care if you want to latch on to the NWT. Enjoy it. It is a question.

Notice how I provide an answer to yours:

The Hebrew word for liar is sheker or שקר.

In Yiddish there is a saying about lies: דער בעסטער ליגן איז דער אמת
Der bester lign iz der emes.

It means: “The best lie is the truth.”

In other words, it can be painful to face reality but it is always important to come clean and choose what is not a lie in the end.

I can’t help it if sarcasm is your choice and stupidity your path. You don’t mean anything to me. I was not born into the JWs nor was I disfellowshipped. I didn’t leave them due to disagreement with theology nor did I adopt any of their doctrine while there nor do I share any of their views today. I don’t care about any of those people I left behind. I am glad they are all growing old and dying away in disappointment, pining away for a paradise that will never come while the “brother” beside them molests their children in the shadows--this is what cults do.
Anyone who shares their views and their Bible translation are pathetic, filthy worms. So go ahead and laugh at me. It will never change the way I view those who side with the lovers of the New World Translation.
EasyPrompt

@AugustHest
I am a lover of God and of truth. I am not prejudiced against people because they use a certain translation.

You have made clear what you are about.

"the epitome of self-deception"

You speak from the abundance of your heart, and what is in your heart you have just made clear to everyone else. (Although God could see anyway.) Maybe the only one who can't is you.

Here's a verse that is just as valid in the NWT as in any other, but if you can understand Hebrew or Greek better you can translate it yourself...

Hebrews 4:11-13

"For the word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit, and of joints from the marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart. And there is not a creation that is hidden from his sight, but all things are naked and openly exposed to the eyes of the one to whom we must give an account."
"it can be painful to face reality but it is always important to come clean and choose what is not a lie in the end."
AugustHest

If we are passed the ad hominem part of our discussion here, you can see why I don't like the NWT.
Not all of it is wrong. For instance, the 2013 version is a cut-and-paste "revision" in which "whoever-it-was" heavily relied on portions of the NABRE Bible for large portions of the Hebrew Scriptures (especially the Prophets) and the NRSV for the Christian Greek Scriptures sections.
They did not actually "revise" the text itself, meaning they did not go back to the original languages and rework the text like a team of academics and scholars from a university do that work on a mainstream translation does. They actually abandoned the original NWT, except for a few spots where "essential renditions" that are exclusive to Watchtower theology or tradition could not be abandoned and included them into the "cut-and-paste."
For convenience, they re-worded a bit of what they "stole"--but did a very bad job as they didn't even change the sentence structure. Today you can use AI software with the NWT update and it will match up the sections they "cut-and-pasted" with other Bible versions.
While it is true, many can sound similar since it is the Bible we are talking about, you will note from what I will about to show you that except for replacing "LORD" with "Jehovah," they often left whole sentences intact and never, ever changed the translation style. They also don't preserve the original NWT except, in this instance, try to "update" their once proud choice for introducing "dungy idols" into the original 1950s NWT and keeping through the 1984 version ("dungy" cannot be actually supported academically, so they use they use a less obvious adjective "disgusting" in its place in the 2013) version.
The scholarship below is not the only place in the NWT that matches with the NABRE almost word-for word:
EZEKIEL 6

NABRE (Official Roman Catholic Bible for the United States-2011)
NWT (1984 Edition)
NWT (2013 Revised Edition)

1 The word of the LORD came to me:
1 And the word of Jehovah continued to occur to me, saying:
1 The word of Jehovah again came to me, saying:

2 Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel and prophesy against them:
2 Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel and prophesy to them.
2 Son of man, turn your face toward the mountains of Israel and prophesy against them.

3 You shall say: Mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD. Thus says the Lord GOD to the mountains and hills, to the ravines and valleys: Pay attention! I am bringing a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places.
3 And you must say, ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah: This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said to the mountains and to the hills, to the streambeds and to the valleys: “Here I am! I am bringing upon YOU a sword, and I shall certainly destroy YOUR high places.
3 You must say, ‘O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah: This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says to the mountains, to the hills, to the streams, and to the valleys: “Look! I will bring a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places.

4 Your altars shall be laid waste, your incense stands smashed, and I will throw your slain down in front of your idols.
4 And YOUR altars must be made desolate and YOUR incense stands must be broken, and I will cause YOUR slain ones to fall before YOUR dungy idols.
4 Your altars will be demolished, your incense stands will be broken, and I will throw your slain ones down before your disgusting idols.

5 Yes, I will lay the corpses of the Israelites in front of their idols, and scatter your bones around your altars.
5 And I will put the carcasses of the sons of Israel before their dungy idols, and I will scatter YOUR bones all around YOUR altars.
5 I will throw the carcasses of the people of Israel before their disgusting idols, and I will scatter your bones all around your altars.

6 Wherever you live, cities shall be ruined and high places laid waste, in order that your altars be laid waste and devastated, your idols broken and smashed, your incense altars hacked to pieces, and whatever you have made wiped out.
6 In all YOUR dwelling places the very cities will become devastated and the high places themselves will become desolated, in order that they may lie devastated and YOUR altars may lie desolated and be actually broken and YOUR dungy idols may be actually made to cease and YOUR incense stands cut down and YOUR works wiped out.
6 In all the places where you dwell, the cities will be devastated and the high places will be demolished and will lie devastated. Your altars will be demolished and shattered, your disgusting idols will perish, your incense stands will be cut down, and your works will be wiped out.

7 The slain shall fall in your midst, and you shall know that I am the LORD.
7 And the slain one will certainly fall in the midst of YOU, and YOU will have to know that I am Jehovah.
7 And those slain will fall in your midst, and you will have to know that I am Jehovah.

8 But I will spare some of you from the sword to live as refugees among the nations when you are scattered to foreign lands.
8 And when it occurs I will let YOU have as a remnant the ones escaping from the sword among the nations, when YOU get scattered among the lands.
8 But I will leave a remnant, for some of you will escape the sword among the nations when you are scattered throughout the lands.

9 Then your refugees will remember me among the nations to which they have been exiled, after I have broken their lusting hearts that turned away from me and their eyes that lusted after idols. They will loathe themselves for all the evil they have done, for all their abominations.
9 And YOUR escaped ones will certainly remember me among the nations to which they will have been taken captive, because I have been broken up at their fornicating heart that has turned aside from me and at their eyes that are going in fornication after their dungy idols; and they will certainly feel a loathing in their faces at the bad things that they have done in all their detestable things.
9 And those who escape will remember me among the nations where they are taken captive. They will realize that I was brokenhearted over their unfaithful heart that turned away from me and at their eyes that are lusting after their disgusting idols. They will be ashamed of and loathe all the evil and detestable things they have done.
Again, a lot of work is done to preserve the "dungy idols" but nothing to preserve the original word choice or word order or even flavor of the original NWT.
Notice vs 7. The original NWT, in the middle is so different, but the revision on the bottom virtually matches the NABRE which came out just a couple years before it in word choice and order. That is odd. That is not a revision, That is a totally new Bible. In fact, it is the NABRE, except for the swap of "Jehovah" for "LORD." How did that happen?
A lot of the NWT 2013 does this, and again the New Testament, especially the Pauline letters, match the NRSV while ignoring the NWT in favor of the wording and sentence structure used by Metzger and his team of translators. This is often very odd. I could give more examples. But it is time for you who favor the NWT to show the academia in support for it--instead of attacking me personally.
I don't really care if this is your Bible or if you like it or favor it above all others. I am only asking a question. If you get mad, or have feelings of any kind that are negative towards me, that isn't a critical reply of data.
This is also just a preview of the information I have. I don't really care to keep going on and on and on and on and on and on--or to change your minds. If this is what you want to do, fine. I was merely asking a question.
But I am showing that at least I can provide answers and show I know what I am talking about.
It's not a bad Bible--when it copies and pastes from scholarly ones like the NABRE and the NRSV. But it has to do that most of the time. When it differs from these sources, then it's bad.
(P.S.--The Watchtower got their idea about "inclusive language" and being less literal from the introduction of the NRSV, by the way. The NRSV's motto is to render "as literal as possible, as free as necessary." And the NWT "revision" group just stole this--and their ideas on "inclusive language" froom the NRSV foreword and translation outline and the Watchtower just claimed it as their own. They had to, as both the NRSV and NABRE employ horizontal inclusive language--and they were copying and pasting from these translations into their "new" NWT. So they had to explain what it was doing in the new NWT Bible.)
EasyPrompt

AugustHest said: "I don't really care if this is your Bible or if you like it or favor it above all others. I am only asking a question. If you get mad, or have feelings of any kind that are negative towards me, that isn't a critical reply of data."

Um, the only person who appeared to get mad here was you. My response to your first post there was this:

EasyPrompt said: "(🤣)"

(I laugh at bad jokes.😁)

Here was some of your response:

AugustHest said: "you can’t defend why you have chosen to stick with the New World Translation with anything but bullying and teasing (and that’s not a defense--it just shows you’re an Internet bully, and it doesn’t take intelligence or critical thinking to be a bully), fine."

AugustHest said: "I can’t help it if sarcasm is your choice and stupidity your path."

AugustHest said: "You don’t mean anything to me."

AugustHest said: "I don’t care about any of those people I left behind."

AugustHest said: "I am glad they are all growing old and dying away...while the “brother” beside them molests their children in the shadows"

AugustHest said: "Anyone who shares their views and their Bible translation are pathetic, filthy worms."

🤣🤣🤣
Self-deception is the name of the thread! Good job!
Here is another bad joke that I think is really funny...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ro4DrewXHE

(That's kinda what your post reminded me of!🤣)
EasyPrompt

AugustHest said: "But I am showing that at least I can provide answers and show I know what I am talking about."

@AugustHest, since you are so well-educated, perhaps you could tell me what is the proper translation of these verses:

"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has everlasting life remaining in him."

and

"If anyone says, “I love God,” and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar."

or how about this one -

"God is Love."
EasyPrompt

You just showed what you are still into by sharing your perversion here. You are a liar and a sicko. You're not deceiving anyone. Good riddance.
Kosonen
- The NWT is itself a deception. Why are you using that? Is this not an exJW site or did I miss something?
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Kosonen

Sorry I don't know how to quote on my phone.
I would surely use a better translation if there was one. Or if I could I would like to make an own Bible translation.
But the fact is that in many instances I can use the NWT to prove that the WT organization is wrong, with their own translation.

What is Self-deception?

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