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Lot's daughters think no one else in the world ia alive apart from them and their dad. The naughty girls get the old man drunk and seduce him. Inevitably, both girls get pregnant and produce sons. One boy is called Moab, the other Ben-ammi, lesser humans than their Jewish grandad because they are the result of an 'unholy union'. Lo and behold! – Moab, it seems, is the ancestor of the Moabites and Ben-ammi the father of the Ammonites. Now it just so happens Moab and Ammon were Arab kingdoms to the west of Judah... Thus a simple tale of incest in the mountains explains the origin and inferiority of nasty non-Jewish neighbours! |
Ancient Biblical Incest leads to Racism
by gumby 20 Replies latest watchtower bible
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gumby
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refiners fire
Gumby.Yes, all the "enemy" nations are descended from sin of one kind or another. The OT is quite clearly interpretable that the sin of race mixing / blood mixing is a serious matter. hence Noahs "generations were pure", his blood was not broken down with mixing. Hence all the Biblical racists getting around. Most of these are Jew haters. They think the white European man is "Israel" (again, demonstrable from the OT) and that the "jew" is actually a mongrel usurper line of blood that is trying to steal our heritage.
I really must get around to posting a thread explaining their scriptural reasoning one of these days.
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refiners fire
Gumbo.
One of the Biblical racists key lines of reasoning is that the "jews" dont recognize Christ, and yet Christ declares that his Israel people will hear his voice. As Christianity is chiefly established in European culture then the Europeans must be Israel, but they are blinded to their "identity".
Another line of reasoning is that the Israelites in the OT were predicted to be "great and mighty", subduing other nations, and the Jews have not done this. The world has been dominated by European culture. Attempts at creating a multiracial society and integrating the white Israelite with 'mud people' is a Satanic plot to totally destroy Israels blood purity.
All demonstrable from the Bible. Matthew 15 verse 24 is a chief scripture that Biblical racists love to use.
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gumby
Hey RF,
Always nice to hear from you.
Biblical racist eh? I haven't heard of that but I'm intrested in knowing exactly what you mean.
I basically copied this from a site that deals with looking closer at bible reasoning.Whether a "racist" wrote this....I don't know. Tell me more about biblical racists now
Gumby
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robhic
What has always bothered me about the story of Lot and his daughters (besides the outageous incestual content) is that if Lot was so drunk as to be effectively passed out, how did he "do it" with not only one but two people?
Maybe it's just my experience (many years ago at a much earlier age even) but when I had had enough to drink to where I was passed out drunk, I couldn't <ahem> copulate very well (as my wife would have attested). Lot must have really been a man's man to have done the deed not once but twice while passed out drunk and being so old to boot! Am I being overly simplistic here? It just don't happen, IMO.
Robert (of the easily amused/confused class)
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Yizuman
I think there's a difference between passing out and having black outs.
Tell me you or anyone else haven't had blackouts while drunk and done things they don't remember doing and later find out from people telling them what they did that they don't remember doing in the first place and talk about major embarrassment when they do find out.
Yizuman
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gumby
I don't give a shit HOW drunk I was or ever have been......I would KNOW my daughter, and certainly would not sleep with her. There is absolutely NO WAY to justify this sick story. Let us not forget.....brothers and sisters....Lot was mentioned in Hebrews as a "faithfull" man.
Give me a freakin break!
Gumby
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robhic
I think there's a difference between passing out and having black outs.
Tell me you or anyone else haven't had blackouts while drunk and done things they don't remember doing and later find out from people telling them what they did that they don't remember doing in the first place and talk about major embarrassment when they do find out.
Yizuman
Well, I can say that in my youth I got very drunk more than a few times. That said, I can say that I never "blacked out" per se, but had a somewhat foggy recollection of events the night before.
My point was more a physiological one, however. It is difficult, if not impossible, to perform when that drunk. And as Gumby says, I think I, too, wouldn't have a problem under any circumstances recognizing my own daughter!
Between recognizing my own child and having a gut full of booze I truly think having sex (with anyone) would be mostly impossible. At least for me.
Robert
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gitasatsangha
Clearly the grapes which made the wine that Lot imbibed came from a vine which was not too far removed in generations from the original grape vines which were in the garden of eden, or which hitchhiked as seeds on the ark, anyway. Anyway these were almost perfect grapes. So of course they could live a long time, AND they had the power to make men drunk by drinking just a little, and affected men of old in ways we do not understand now. They caused Lot to impregnate both his daughters, and Noah to shake his antediluvian booty before Canaan. For all we know Prince Absalom may have had some of this wine before encourageing his sister Tamar to make heart-shaped cakes and wear a thong bikini and pasties for him.
Gita (of the prefers-beer-class)
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cellomould
This is a great topic although shocking
How convenient it was to ascribe virtue to your own ancestors and vice to other tribes' ancestors!
But a little food for thought:
Has it crossed your mind just how prominent rape was in the old testament?
Perhaps the old lechers Lot and Canaan were abusing/raping their children. Perhaps the story about drunkeness was just a way of exculpating the abusers. Quite likely, actually.
Especially considering children were married off during adolescence.
And to converge with the earlier thought about ascribing vice to your enemies...
Why was it okay for your tribe to conquest and rape, killing all except the virgins? How could this possibly lead to consensual sexual relations? The girls would not even speak your language!
And yet your own tribe would go to great lengths to 'protect' your own females from the clutches of outside males. Hypocritical?
Women were enslaved and abused...did Jehovah condone this?
cellmould
