slimboyfat joins the Unitarians! (page 2)

slimboyfat

Yes berryjerry there is a Quaker meeting in Glasgow and I'd like to go. Unfortunately their Wednesday meeting is a clash for me. I don't know when I can fit it in. But maybe sometime, or possibly a Sunday. There is some overlap between Unitarian and Quaker approach (the speaker at the Unitarian meeting is a former Quaker) except Quakers are more Christian in orientation and contemplative in ritual. (As I understand it. I've never been to a Quaker meeting)

Yes dozy I am very interested in this topic of what religions do when they decline and fold. There are a number of denominations that face extinction in the short to medium term in Scotland: Unitarians, Christian Science, Methodists, United Reformed, Christadelphians, and probably a few others. Arguably the Church of Scotland itself faces extinction on current trends. One local church that closed down a few years ago (a small Presbyterian denomination) donated their remaining funds (£20,000) to the local hospice. In many cases however, I suspect that money runs out before the membership expires.

I would encourage anyone who's interested to seek out their local Unitarian church and experience it for yourself. These folks are not going to be around much longer, so it's an experience that may not be available in ten or twenty years time. Then you will only be able to read about it in history books. They are trying to reverse decline by transforming the community into something for the new century, I wish them well but it's an uphill struggle.

https://www.uuworld.org/articles/british-unitarians-rally

If anyone is interested this is an outline of a typical sermon similar to what I heard on Sunday. It asks the question "are churches still much use?" It includes reflection on the history of Unitarians in Glasgow and decline.

http://www.ukunitarians.org.uk/glasgow/pdfs/service250514.pdf

Has anyone got any other suggestions for churches to visit?

slimboyfat

Still Totally ADD this was a Unitarian church, not Unitarian Universalist. As I understand it there are no Unitarian Universalist churches in this country. I am not clear on the difference so I would appreciate any explanation. Possibly Unitarian Universalist is an American strain, I'm not sure.

This Sunday there was no audience participation, but I understand that questions and comments are encouraged by other speakers on other Sundays. There was no Joys and Concerns section either, but this may be different on other occasions too. And this church likes to talk about "church" and "worship" even though they don't act like a church, and don't really seem to "worship".

Muddy Waters

Slimboyfat, you asked for suggestions about other churches or groups to visit, and I am curious about a group or philosophy called Humanitarian or Humanist (not sure they are one and the same?) -- They sound very open as well.

slimboyfat

As far as I can make out Humanists have meetings but not "services" as such, unsurprisingly I suppose. I'll put it on the list.

https://www.humanism.scot/

Groups I'd like to attend: Christadelphians, Christian Science, Methodists, Quakers, free churches.

I'd really like to attend any Bible Student groups, other other Watchtower splinter groups. But I am not sure if there are any still in existence in the UK. Does anyone know of any?

Interested in any other suggestions.

OrphanCrow

slimboyfat: Has anyone got any other suggestions for churches to visit?

Sure. Check out the Baha'i's.

Just be careful - don't "join"

notsurewheretogo

SBF...these are honest questions as I'm curious but feel free not to answer if it is none of our business...

What is the motive in visiting these other religions?

Do you consider that one out there may be "the truth"?

Do you consider that the WT is wrong and has no favour in a "God's" view?

Do you believe in an entity called "God"?

I'm trying to understand what you are doing and answers to those questions help...many of us who have left wouldn't do what you have done but nonetheless your posts are really interesting considering many might just be used to the JW meetings.

slimboyfat

Well notsure, I wouldn't really call myself a "seeker" because I don't honestly expect to "find" the truth in any particular place. But I wouldn't rule it out, I suppose. I try to keep an open mind. But that's not my motivation for visiting different churches.

Really I'm just curious about religion in general. Ever since I started researching JWs, I've been researching other groups too. In particular Mormons, Christadelphians, Adventists, Unitarians, Moonies, Church of Scotland. I'm interested in the history and sociology of most Christian based religions. And I reached a point where I'd read lots of books on these groups, but not experienced any of them directly. And I think there are some things you can only learn about groups from direct experience.

For example, contrary to expectations I found that SDA are quite vibrant and growing. Whereas the Mormon church is experiencing significant decline from my observations. Much more than the official figures would suggest. And Unitarians are even closer to extinction than I thought.

I am very interested in the topic of secularisation and religious decline. I've read lots of books on this by scholars like Steve Bruce and Callum Brown. I am really interested in how religions decline in general, and applying this to JWs in particular.

On balance I probably do think there is a God, although I wouldn't say for definite. And I am doubtful whether JWs are God's people.

I found the Unitarian meeting the most agreeable so far. But I liked (very different aspects) of SDA too. I can't say the same for the small Pentecostal group I attended. It was really bad. So bad I didn't even write a review. I hope I don't run into them again!

Plus attending these different meetings teaches me things about JWs too, when I look at them in comparison. I am more convinced than ever that JWs are facing significant decline or even collapse. Their future prospects more closely resemble the Unitarians than SDA. Plus the lack of funding for JWs becomes apparent when you compare it with other churches, particularly SDA. I may make a thread about that.

notsurewheretogo

Thanks for replying! Very interesting...

And now I really want to read what happened when you went to the small Pentecostal group meeting!

Still Totally ADD

Slimboyfat I do know the Unitarians and the Universalist was around at the time the U.S. gain it's independence. Both were separate organization and both more or less by the 1800' s denounce Calvinism in there teachings. By the 1860' s they was one of the foremost religions in this country. They was out spoken in the abolishment of slavery and later on showed support for womens rights.

For the most part the congregation we go to are humanists. No prayers or religious symbols. Other UU congregation are more Christian like. Most of our services are thinking sermons with welcome debate on that days subject. My wife and I have both given talks about what a cult is. Most have welcome us with open arms and find our stories on the borg very interesting. Being a born- in I have found this organization a very good tool for my recovery from the WT. Thank you for your answers and your thoughts on this. Still Totally ADD

redvip2000

Unitarians will probably struggle to survive because they fall uneasily between two stools. Atheists may be irritated that the form of Unitarian meetings appears in some sense to be religious, even if the content is not religious. And for religious people, they won't be reassured by the traditional structure of the services because the content does not affirm any faith position.

The first point sums it well. Atheists will likely object that it needs to be called a church at all. Why not call it social group, or community group? It's almost like it needs to be called a church in order for the members to have their spiritual "demons" fulfilled. Almost like when people only feel like they've had dinner, if it comes on a plate with a fork and knife.

slimboyfat joins the Unitarians!

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