This might be a good week to start a conversation about Jeremiah 29:10

by George One Time 22 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  George One Time

  At this week CLAM meeting, Jeremiah 29:10 is discussed:

  Jer 29:10—How does this verse demonstrate the accuracy of Bible prophecy? (g 6/12 14 ¶1-2)

  The mistranslation of this verse is the basis of the idea that the jews spend 70 years in exile in Babylon. However, in the original language it reads not "at" Babylon, but "for" Babylon.

  From the Watchtower : http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2011736#h=1:0-151:0
  

  Instead of saying 70 years “at Babylon,” many translations read “for Babylon.” (NIV) Some historians therefore claim that this 70-year period applies to the Babylonian Empire. According to secular chronology, the Babylonians dominated the land of ancient Judah and Jerusalem for some 70 years, from about 609 B.C.E. until 539 B.C.E. when the capital city of Babylon was captured.

  That famous article did not explain why many modern translations do read "for Babylon".
  

  https://www.studylight.org/interlinear-bible/jeremiah/29-10.html

  It means that in case those historians are right about the translation, 607 B.C.E. can be dismissed.
  
• 

  snowbird

  I'm working on something right now that suggests ALL "scholars" are off in their dates.

  Miz, is that you?

  Sylvia
• 

  George One Time

  @Sylvia: No, it's not Miz... Your work sounds quite ambitious. Looking forward to it!
  
• 

  snowbird

  Thanks!

  Sylvia
• 

  Aroq

  George, 607 can be dismissed using the Bible alone. Its just getting a jw to accept what the Bible actually says. While there are no actual dates, the Bible does show that the time period the jw's claim is impossible.
• 

  Londo111

  What is missing in Watchtower using Jeremiah 29:10 as an isolated prooftext is the context. Jeremiah was writing to the Exiles who had been taken to Babylon 11 years before the destruction of Jerusalem. He was telling them to settle down, because they would not return until the 70 years (which had already begun) elapsed.

  https://youtu.be/-CV3PnByFoU?list=PLyNx0oM_bmgDJHQFzgm4L0rRuPpwTOVmz
  
• 

  David_Jay

  Jews themselves do not teach nor understand Jeremiah's 70-year prophecy as referring to the time we remained in exile.

  The English rendition of this text from the NJPS Tanakh reads:

  For thus said the Lord: When Babylon’s seventy years are over, I will take note of you, and I will fulfill to you My promise of favor—to bring you back to this place.

  In other words, the prophet says that God has set a time limit for Babylon of 70 years. When did these years actually begin and why did they begin at this point? The prophet never says. Did they end when Israel was released? Did they end when the famous "writing on the wall" of Daniel was seen? Was it when Babylon fell to its enemies? Or was it when the first exiled Jew set foot back in Israel? Maybe it was when the Temple was built? Nobody knows any of this, at least not Jews.

  The 70 years determination is merely a declaration similar to Genesis 6:3 where God says people has been given a limit of 120 years. This is determined to mean the limit of a lifespan, but just a few verses later Noah lives over 900 years. Jacob lives to be 147 years old. Then is this verse in Genesis Saying there will be only 120 years until the Flood of Noah? If so, when did those years start to count? Are they lunar years? If so, do they follow the Jewish lunar calendar with its leap years or that of a more universally accepted "year" of all the earth that has since been forgotten?

  These verses have no specifics regarding what the years being discussed involved. They do share the same feature of God being spoken of setting a limit, but nothing more.

  I still have to wonder how and why Christians like the JWs make such big deals over making precise determinations over them. Especially regarding the Babylonian exile, since we Jews experienced it and even we don't have precise information on Jeremiah's meaning, what gives others greater insight or over-concern about this verse? So somehow God gives the prophecy to Jews but only Gentiles get to know it's actual meaning? Yeah, right.
• 

  snowbird

  Daniel believed them to be 70 literal years.

  Daniel 9.

  Sylvia
• 

  David_Jay

  You mean the 70 "weeks" of Daniel chapter 9. These are not years.

  The Book of Daniel is found in the Writings section of the Tanakh, not the Prophets section. Daniel is also not included in the list of prophets recognized by Judaism.

  The Book of Daniel is not a prophetic book like Jehovah's Witnesses believe. It is an apocalypse, a description of political intrigue during the Hasmonean era, describing the events leading up to the first Chanukah. The political intrigue is disguised as "prophecy" and in the dramas involving our legendary hero Daniel and the Chaldean kings. The historical Daniel lived long before the Babylonian exile, but he was not a prophet. He is known for living an exemplary Jewish life among Gentiles before the era of the Prophets even began.

  Chapter 9 of Daniel is known as "ex eventu" prophecy, a retelling of history as if it was prophecy, but composed only after the event happened and the author was fully aware of it. It is actually talking about the actions of Antiochus IV Epiphanies which caused the rise of the Maccabees. "Daniel" is saying that the events leading to the first Chanukah were ordained by God by recording the history as if it were a prophecy.
• 

  snowbird

  No, not the 70 weeks.

  Daniel 9:1 shows that Daniel discerned the 70-year desolation period was coming to a close, and he offered up a candid, moving confessional prayer.

  Sorry, I should have been more specific

  Sylvia