Mental Illness

by Tallon 61 Replies latest watchtower medical

• 

  steve2

  Ruby, sometimes a little learning is dangerous.

  You take the findings of research on religiosity and improved mental health wellbring and apply it across religious groups in general - and you fail to consider whether such a general finding can be applied to specified religious groups, even a high-control group such as JWs.

  You extrapolate from the finding and virtually conclude all religion must be good for adherents. You then tell another poster to get real about the finding. Do you not see how literal minded you have been? Because religiosity may have health benefits does not therefore mean all religiosity has those benefits.

  With all due respect, you have drawn an incredibly long bow to make a dubious point. And you consistently fail to respond to very specific points posters have raised such as the calibre of people attracted to JW organization and anecdotal reports that strongly suggest mental health problems and suicidal behaviours are occurring In local congregations.

  Whilst actual statistics of mental health disorders on specific religious groups are unknown and we cannot make comparisons between groups (e.g., which one has the higher rate of mental health problems, etc.,, we can still observe what is happening in specific groups - especially when individuals identify as affiliated with a named group.

  Conversely,there is an absence of evidence that the reported health benefits of religiosity extend equally to all groups irrespective of the leadership structure and stresses within high-control groups.
• 

  Ruby456

  steve you making quite a few assumptions there. I don't even know where to start.

  but please indicate which figures you are refuting? what is known is the incidence of mental health disorders within the general population and we can at least expect to see that reflected amongst Jehovahs witnesses - it isn't. then too, at least we would expect to see some caution expressed in making assertions that Jehovhas witnesses are mentally damaging without qualification particularly as mental illness is so common in the general population.

  the royal family are at present involved in bringing valuable publicity to this issuse of the prevalence of mental illness so to remove the stigmatism that is associated with it.
• 

  nonjwspouse

  Personal experience here.

  My husbands mothers side of the family has a pretty high level of dysfunction. We believe the father likely molested the children. The mother ( my husbands grandmother) became a witness when her children were very young. They were poor Appalachian Mtn family. The father was abusive. One of my MILs brothers was a child abuser that eventually got refuge in an Indian reservation. Several suicides. It is believed by a cousin that is now awake, that joining was an act of desperation, a need for hope.
  

  Of all the many children, two seemed more normal that the rest, the two youngest. They left long before their 18th birthday. But the two youngest are JWs and continue to be.

  My husbands father was raised in a rather abusive type household as well. Strict Southern Baptist. He converted as a JW when meeting his wife to be. He ( once confessed in a light conversation to me) doesn't believe in any organized religion.

  My father in law was an elder quickly, but then left the Hall, walked away, (likely a judicial hearing due to my husbands teen age drug use) in the later 70's, never to return.

  I saw my mother in laws best friend and her husband. The woman is a kind, giggly woman that had a husband who scolded her harshly for not being serious. He was living to become an elder but never appointed one. He was a strange dude.I watched him shun his son in law ( this was at a campout dinner before I knew TTATT so didn't know about the the shunning thing.) My husband at the time, told me the son in law was always rude so he ignores him. It was a highly uncomfortable scene. He stood like a stone statue looking past his as the son in law spoke.

  He was also shunning his son. I wonder who else he shunned? He died early because the new system was going to cure his diabetes, so he destroyed his body by not taking care of the condition. His poor wife, I feel for her. At least one redeeming thing he did was leave her with a good amount of $ to live on when he died. ( He was an extreme penny pincher)
  

  I do feel anyone with any emotional issues that are negative are exacerbated when associating then following the JWs. People with tendencies for personality disorders are primed in this environment.

  It's not that only people who are JW are mentally off, it's that the environment "grows" the seeds of mental disorder if they are there. I think that is why there are so many in my very small sampling, and likely so many overall IMO.
  
• 

  snowbird

  Thanks for sharing that, NJWS.

  My family, Lord, where do I begin?

  Impoverished, illiterate, ignorant Luddites.

  My father was a stone alcoholic, my mother a neurotic-bordering-on-psychotic mess.

  Add to this mixture a dose of Jim Crow and other oppression, stir long and well.

  Do you see why I was a prime target for the JW's teachings?

  Sylvia
• 

  Ruby456

  snowbird I wonder if their spirituality protected them from worse

  nice unbiased article here - no need to go to church

  https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201401/brains-spirituality-and-depression
  
• 

  snowbird

  That is interesting, Ruby.

  Thanks.

  One of my grandmas who rarely attended church lived to the age of 104.

  She had a live and let live attitude.

  I don't attend any religious services, but feel a deep connection to whom I believe to be the Creator.

  Sylvia
• 

  Ruby456

  your grandma sounds wonderful - live and let live - a great motto to live by
• 

  steve2

  Ruby apologies if I hsve made unwarranted assumptions so thanks for the clarification. Just as there are no statistics to back up assertions that the incidence of mental health disorders is higher in JW organization than respective general populations, there are no specific statistics backing up the opposite claim that their mental health is better thsn respective general populations. Now I am not saying it is worse than a comparable general population (e.g., Australian JWs compared to the Australisn general population. But what I have suggested is that the demands of membership in high control religious groips, in particular JW organization likely gives rise to mental health problems, if not disorders among biologically vulnerable Witnesses. As you will have noted in my earlier reply in this thread, individuals bring their vulnerabilities with them when they affiliate with JW organization.

  In the absence of research on the incidence of mental health disorders, observations, tempered with caution, become important - and, likewise, if we observe individual JWs protected from such mental health problems due to their religious commitment, that too must be acknowledged. Based on anecdotal reports over many decades, though, the impression is that JWs, active or otherwise, struggle with such problems.
• 

  Ruby456

  steve2

  you keep talking about the absence of research - I have seen research on Jehovahs witnesses. High control issues are a problem for leavers, for those wanting a different worldview - as I have already explained. Research shows that high control, so long as there is affirmation and validation, actually is an enjoyable experience for practicing members. I have seen both social science and psychological research.

  I don't want to minimise the problems suffered by those who wish to leave either because it is as you say hugely difficult and mental health issues come up some worse than others - are you prepared to admit that your evidence stems from among those leaving?

  Surely you must have found that this is so even when one is climbing the ladder of success in the general population too? It is here that the most mental health issues arise even extreme ones that lead to suicide in the general population particularly if the individual needs to leave behind different social experiences to begin new ones.

  edit: btw I agree that it shouldn't be so difficult to leave a religion and that this needs to change. And I completely understand and emphathise with the reality of those coming to JWnet
• 

  tor1500

  @Snowbird,

  Yep, I see why you were a good target. Don't be so hard on yourself...that's who the org. preys on...the more depressed you are the more you are a return visit.....they don't return visit on well adjusted balanced folks...I noticed that when I started talking to the friends one by one...their home life was something to be desired....even when I started going the hall, I noticed many of the family members didn't sit with one another, so you better not talk about anybody because you don't know who is related....

  I'm happy you are out...hope you are doing well...your past is your past...I once heard this....you may not be where you need to be but you sure are not where you used to be....we have a choice in life...you have left the org...live, breath, don't blame anyone or anything anymore....those are just crutches....

  One day, I'd like to be free of the org....but I have made some nice conditional friends, so that's my rub...but one day Snow bird one day, I'll be on this site...saying I'm free at last Great God Almighty, I'm free at last (from the org.) and I can be a real Christian and help where I feel needed, be it a soup kitchen, or in a hospital, but to be able to give back what God has given me....not just knock on doors week after week but to do something, even if it's not that much...

  Tor