Fashion in Heaven

by peacefulpete 11 Replies latest social humour

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Why is it that fashions are assumed to have stayed the same in Heaven for thousands of years? You'd think that after wearing the same boring robe for eternity you'd crave something different. Yet no, angels and God are still wearing the same white onesie they had when they vacationed on earth with Abraham. I'm sure they are comfortable, no concerns about short inseams or elastic waistbands. I imagine they are easy to loosen up after a good hearty meal of manna. No risk being seen with pants button undone!

    But now that i think about it the Hindu heavenly beings have no fear of flare or color. They are decked with blues and yellows and greens from head to toe! Some might say fabulous!

    I wonder......Luke 4:24:

    While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel.

    NEW YORK - JANUARY 01: Liberace performs at Radio City Music Hall in 1985 in New York City. (Photo by Larry Busacca/WireImage)

  • littlerockguy
    littlerockguy

    Are you sure angels and God eat and shits? I will have to pay attention to more near-death experiences to see if anybody who may have gone through that experience describes any deviation away from the white robe esthetic in the apparel that their spirit guides, angels, God, Jesus, etc. may be wearing.

    LRG

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    i used to wonder if god farts.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Now you are just being silly.

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    I assume you might be speaking of illustrations common to the Watchtower and what comes to mind when thinking of famous religious paintings, such as Michaelangelo's work which adorns the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel and other Medieval and Renaissance depictions of angels and the Divine, etc.

    There are two particular reasons for this: 1.) Judaism doesn't depict it's mythology and divine symbols, and thus 2.) what you are looking at, for the most part, has to do with Imperial Rome and its sensitivities (or, to be honest, the lack thereof when it comes to the practice of crucifixion and the art of Michaelangelo),

    First, Judaism, even in its illuminated manuscripts, did not depict human forms--at least not ancient works. If you look at old Medieval illuminated works, such as very old Passover Haggadahs with Jewish illustrations, the anthropomorphic forms are actually animals with bird-like heads and odd fashions that do not necessarily represent common Jewish clothing. So fearful were Jews of breaking the commandment of creating idols that they did not even create human forms in religious settings.

    As for Christians, from the earliest times this Jewish sensitivity, especially in connection with the crucifixion of Jesus (as well as creating any illustration of him), sort of followed. We do, however, see many depictions of "types" or "anti-types" that represent Jesus from the Old Testament (i.e., Jonah and the Whale meant "Jesus," for example, and thus Christians would depict this instead, or a young shepherd carrying a sheep in his arms or over his shoulders, etc.). What has this to do with clothing?

    The Crucifixion and Loin Cloths

    Despite the rejection of the historical, archeological, and religious evidence, there is another line of support that Jesus of Nazareth died on a cross that the Watchtower doesn't tell its followers about: art. Today it is common to see crucifixes with the corpus (crucified body) of Jesus wearing a loin cloth, whether it is a painting or sculpted form.

    However, Jesus did not wear a loin cloth when he was put to death. In fact, not only does the Biblical account make a big fuss about the "big fuss" that the Roman soldiers had over the unique underwear Jesus wore for being a supposedly poor rabbi (John 19:23-24), it was part of what made crucifixion so much worse than the average hanging or impaling. People were hung nude on the side of well-traveled roads, often those walked upon into the main city area so that everybody could see those hanging. Above their heads was a sign that advertised their crime. The victim died slowly of asphixiation over several days and had to urinate and dedicate upon themselves for all to see. It was very shameful.

    One of the very first depictions of Jesus on the cross was created not by a Christian but by a Pagan making fun of Christianity and Jesus. Scratched onto a rock surface, the Alexemenos Graffito depicts Jesus in the nude.

    Eventually, once Christians felt comfortable enough to depict Jesus in their own art they employed their own tropes to do so, but never as Jesus crucified. First, around the 3rd and 4th century CE, Jesus was depicted as Emperor in royal Roman clothing. Next, there were images where Jesus was depicted with the tropes of Zeus (meaning he had replaced that god or conquered him). Sometimes he was depicted as the "new" Samson of the Old Testament, using powerful muscles to tear down the temples of the false gods! But his clothing reflected the robes of a conquering Pagan god or hero.

    When the time came that the crucifixion could finally be depicted by Christians, they themselves placed the loin cloth on Jesus, even though such an invention did not actually exist at the time. The reason? By then Christianity was now the religion of the State, and the sensitivities of the Roman people were that divinities did not depict the divine uncovered in such a state. What we are looking at is an Imperalist invention known as "The Drape."

    It was still recognized (to this day) that this is just an artistic device for modesty's sake. Roman Catholicism reminds people during Lent in its liturgy that Jesus Christ was totally naked during his crucifixion, stripped entirely nude, and that this even has a theological connection to his being the Last Adam of 1 Cor 15:45:

    Clothing gives a man his social position; it gives him his place in society, it makes him someone. His public stripping means that Jesus is no longer anything at all, he is simply an outcast, despised by all alike. The moment of the stripping reminds us of the expulsion from Paradise: God’s splendour has fallen away from man, who now stands naked and exposed, unclad and ashamed. And so Jesus once more takes on the condition of fallen man.

    If you notice in many religious paintings and statues, the more divine in Christianity someone is, the more clothed they are. In Michelangelo's The Creation of Adam, God is clothed, but practically no one else is.

    Codes

    Clothing generally carries specific color codes in Christian art as well.

    When Jesus wears white as opposed to red and blue in a painting, it means something. White represents being holy, whereas red represents the blood of Christ. Blue represents the Divine nature of Jesus and purple his kingship. Depending on the theme of the painting or statue, etc., the colors of the clothing are selected or left out. Often they are opposed to the others in the action in scene.

    Mary also has colors used for her as well, with blue often used to represent her virginity. She wears black during scenes of the Passion and Red is often used for the Assumption. (Black is used to a powerful effect for Mary in the film The Passion of the Christ.)

    The Apostle Paul is associated with red-colored garments that lean to favor rust.

    And on and on and on...

    Approved Visions

    While I am not the authority, nor am I encouraging it here by mentioning this (and even the Roman Catholic Church does not state that people must believe such things), the Church has rarely stated that a handful of events have their nod of "approval"--meaning that in modern times some people who have claimed to be visited by Jesus or one of the saints might have indeed had some type of supernatural experience (according to the Holy See).

    I mention this in line with our "clothing" discussion, because some of these "approved" visionaries discussed, of all things, the clothing of those that "visited" them.

    One of the most famous (and curious) is the case of St. Bernadette Soubirous of Lourdes, France who, in 1858, claimed she was visited by "a lady" that only she could see in what was once a hazadous waste dump in a grotto but now the site of a famous spring. While Bernadette at the time did not know that her various visits were that of the Virigin Mary (at 14 the girl had a good memory, but due to a previous illness was not able to get a very formal education for her age) or why others could not see or hear what she was witnessing, she did describe the "lady" in a precise manner repeatedly.

    From 11 February to 16 July 1858, she reported 18 visits of the "lady" as wearing a white veil, a blue girdle, with a golden rose on each foot, and holding a rosary of pearls.--from the Lourdes Apparitions, Wikipedia & The Song of Bernadette by Franz Werfel.

    Whatever you think of visions or the supernatural, I always thought this was a peculiar amount of detail from a teenage girl.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    Kaleb......I appreciate your post, even if I was trying to be humorous.

    I made a thread some time ago about literary 'imagery' and how it is actually conceptually the same as use of art images. There is something so fundamental to human use of pictures, even word pictures. Vision plays such a huge role in comprehension.

    Funny that even within Judeo/Christian aniconist faiths, believers imagine their deity with appropriate costuming. The 'image' is fixed and part of the appurtenance of holiness and divinity. I imagine since God is thought of as being very old his clothes must be too. If an artist were to depict Jesus in blue jeans and T-shirt, it is immediately perceived as disrespectful.

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    It can also be said of swords, crowns, harps and scepters. Drawing Jesus with a machine gun, or angels playing electric guitars invokes a negative reaction.

  • careful
    careful
    Drawing Jesus with a machine gun, or angels playing electric guitars invokes a negative reaction.

    Well now, I knew this homeless guy who enjoyed both psilocybin and LSD. He once said he saw Jesus and Jimi Hendrix playing together ...

    Now I'm "trying to be humorous" ..., right PP & KOW?

  • KalebOutWest
    KalebOutWest

    I understood this was labeled under "humor." I know that Liberace is not a divine being--except here in my hometown of Las Vegas, where Liberace is indeed worshipped 24/7--literally.

    The examples I provided are indeed facts, theological sound, but somewhat humorous in themselves. I find it astounding that my people the Jews would draw a birdman Moses accepting the Ten Commandments from God and bird-headed people crossing the Red Sea on Passover Night in a Passover Haggadah out of reverence for the command against idolatry, disregarding the fact that the Egyptians worshipped deities that looked just like this.

    I find it amusing that the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is covered with nudes, painted by an artist who not only wrote love sonnets to men (over 300, but who's counting).

    When Michelangelo's poetry was first published, it was such a "source of discomfort" that the pronouns were originally changed until they were translated into English for the first time in 1893.

    Bernadette Soubirous, like most Catholic saints and prophets, was originally hated and disbelieved by the clergy and the Catholic Church. The young maid never claimed to be seeing the Virgin Mary until the local priest demanded that Bernadette ask the woman to produce a miracle and tell her who she was. On her last appearance the woman gave Bernadette a brief explanation: "I am the Immaculate Conception." This was a complex expression regarding a dogma theologians in the Vatican had just agreed upon regarding Mary. Bernadette couldn't read much, let alone had any connections to Vatican discussions.

  • TonusOH
    TonusOH

    Now I can't help but keep hearing in my head the voice of Liberace groaning "I wish my apostle Paul was here" before beginning his next musical interlude.

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