Is confrontational "New Atheism" undermining the cause of atheism?

by EdenOne 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  EdenOne

  Interesting debate between Lawrence Krauss and Greg Epstein.

  Watch the debate on Al-Jazeera.

  What do you think?

  I liked the sharp points raised by Al Jazeera's journalist Mehdi Hasan.

  Eden
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  cantleave

  Good debate. I think LC's final sentence says it all, we should respect people but don't have to respect silly ideas. There is a danger that we could burn bridges by being too critical and in order to fight extremism we need to work with moderate religious influencers.

  The truth is most of the conflict isn't due to the words of confrontational atheists, but due to the actions of political leaders.
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  EdenOne

  I really am in favor of promoting education. Let education effect people and the inevitable consequence is that in the vast majority of cases, they will conclude for themselves that religious beliefs are ridiculous and will abandon them. However, there's more to religion than just beliefs: there's community, family, culture, identity values. What needs to be tackled are the nonsensical beliefs, but at the same time respecting the dignity of the people and the OTHER (positive) values associated with religion.

  Eden
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  snare&racket

  New atheism is about 15 years old now.....

  I think the intolerance to radical beliefs and its consequences are evidence of the world being more secular, whether it be the disgust at ISIS or the Catholic Church and chaste adults abusing children in huge numbers.

  'New' atheism is now a teenager and has started making demands ;)
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  KateWild

  I loved this interview. I actually think Krauss is less confrontational than Dawkins, and he didn't try and defend Dawkins either.

  I was really surprised the hear of the hate crime, murder of three Muslim girls, by an atheist. This is evidence that when atheists like Dawkins say people who believe in God are irrational this can insight hatred and cause atheist to commit murder.

  But I actually think Krauss got a beating he is quite reasonable though. I am going to read "A universe from nothing"
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  LoveUniHateExams

  This is evidence that when atheists like Dawkins say people who believe in God are irrational this can insight hatred and cause atheist to commit murder - woah, hang on. Dawkins has never advocated murder or violence against believers.

  I'm not sure if atheism even has a cause - it's just individuals' non-belief, isn't it?

  Will watch the vid later. It sounds good ...
  
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  Bonsai

  Well worth the 15 minutes to listen to their discussion.

  We need to avoid labels that pin us into corners and breed distrust and even hostility from the religious moderates. I don't like being called an apostate or an atheist because they don't come close to defining who I am. Labels are bread from laziness and the desire to lump something into one large category for the sake of convenience.
  

  It is time to remove the myths and superstitions that divide mankind and hold us back from fulfilling our potential and advancing together as a human race.. Religions and beliefs that promote violence, division and mental abuse need to be removed. The best way to do this is not by violence or making religion illegal, but by educating and getting younger generations of people to think about the basis for what they believe and whether or not their beliefs are based on logic and facts. We need to expose and publicize the fundamental flaws and fallacies that riddle every theistic belief system that exists on this planet. The public education system needs a complete overhaul...
  
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  Giles Gray

  LUHE-"woah, hang on. Dawkins has never advocated murder or violence against believers."

  I don't think Kate was making such a claim. I believe the point she was making was that some athiests have used Dawkin's statments as an excuse for their hatred against Muslims.
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  Giles Gray

  EdenOne-" I really am in favor of promoting education. Let education effect people and the inevitable consequence is that in the vast majority of cases, they will conclude for themselves that religious beliefs are ridiculous and will abandon them."

  As much as I agree, there is then the problem of "Faith Schools" tainting objective education. Dawkins is very outspoken againt them.
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  Phizzy

  The British Humanist Association has a big campaign on at present related to Faith Schools, worth a look on their Site.

  I certainly feel that we non-believers need to get more confrontational with the silly ideas. Urging believers of all hues to get an Education can be quite confrontational, nobody likes to come face to face with their own ignorance, but it is what is needed so very much.

  Education is the key, but turning it in the lock that is on people's minds is often very difficult.