True Bible Doctrines Part 1

by hooberus 45 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    There is alot of exposing false doctrines on here lately, I thought I'd take a different approach and show a series of true Bible doctines.

    The Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

    But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Romans 10:8-9

    Was his body raised?

    John Chapter 2 shows that the same body that was destroyed was to be raised. The word "this" is in the present tense, hense the same body that he had before the crucifixion was to be raised.

    18] Then answered the Jews and said unto him, What sign shewest thou unto us, seeing that thou doest these things?
    [19] Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
    [20] Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
    [21] But he spake of the temple of his body.
    [22] When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

    Does the body that was raised have wounds? Where did these wounds come from? The scriptures teach that the same body that was crucified was raised. That is why it has wounds. Notice how jesus used the fact that his body has wounds from the nails and the spear. It would have been deceptive of jesus to use these wound marks as proof of his resurrection if it wasn't the same body.

    John chapter 20

    [25] The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
    [26] And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
    [27] Then saith he to Thomas, reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
    [28] And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
    [29] Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

    Does he still have the same body now?
    Colossians Chapter 2
    [8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
    [9] For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

    Was he raised as a Spirit? or does He have flesh and bones?

    Luke 24

    I36] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    [37] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
    [38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    [40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

    Ephesians chapter 5

    [29] For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
    [30] For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

    Was the same flesh that was crucified raised?

    Jesus received his physical body from Mary, a decendant of David. Thus he was of the seed of David. The scriptures teach that after his resurection that he was still of the seed of David, hense it was the same flesh.

    Acts chapter 2

    29] Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
    [30] Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
    [31] He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
    [32] This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

    Romans chapter 1 (compare this with 2 Timothy 2:8)

    1] Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, called to be an apostle, separated unto the gospel of God,
    [2] (Which he had promised afore by his prophets in the holy scriptures,)
    [3] Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;
    [4] And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

    2 Timothy chapter 2

    [7] Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.
    [8] Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:
    [9] Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

    Acts Chapter 16 states that it was a "man" whom God rasied from the dead.

    [31] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
    [32] And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.

    Is He still a man?

    1 Timothy 2:5 states that the mediator is (present tense) a "man"

    [5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
    [6] Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

    Hebrews 10:12

    {12] But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
    [13] From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

    Psalm 80

    [17] Let thy hand be upon the man of thy right hand, upon the son of man whom thou madest strong for thyself.

    The flesh that was resurrected was the same flesh that he possessed before his death.

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    But what about these objections?

    Why didn't the disciples recognize Jesus?

    The reason why the disciples did not at first recognize Jesus was because "their eyes were holden" (Luke 24:15), not because he didn't have the same body or flesh. Later "their eyes were opened" (Luke 24:31). This is similar to the situation in Luke 24:45 when he "opened" their understanding that they might understand the scriptures. It was the same scripture as before however now their understanding was "opened"

    Luke chapter 24

    [13] And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs.
    [14] And they talked together of all these things which had happened.
    [15] And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
    [16] But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.
    [17] And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad?
    [18] And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass therein these days?
    [19] And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:
    [20] And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him.
    [21] But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
    [22] Yea, and certain women also of our company made us astonished, which were early at the sepulchre;
    [23] And when they found not his body, they came, saying, that they had also seen a vision of angels, which said that he was alive.
    [24] And certain of them which were with us went to the sepulchre, and found it even so as the women had said: but him they saw not.
    [25] Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
    [26] Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
    [27] And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
    [28] And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further.
    [29] But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them.
    [30] And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.
    [31] And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.
    [32] And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
    [33] And they rose up the same hour, and returned to Jerusalem, and found the eleven gathered together, and them that were with them,
    [34] Saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
    [35] And they told what things were done in the way, and how he was known of them in breaking of bread.
    [36] And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
    [37] But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
    [38] And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    [39] Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    [40] And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
    [41] And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
    [42] And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
    [43] And he took it, and did eat before them.
    [44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
    [45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,
    [46] And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

    How could jesus appear and disappear and still have the same fleshly body?

    Acts chapter 8 shows that Philip was caught away by the Spirit and was seen no more by the eunich, yet Philip still had his same body.

    Acts chapter 8

    [37] And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
    [38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
    [39] And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
    [40] But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

    Doesn't 1 Peter 3:18 show that Chrsit's body is now Spirit and not flesh?

    [18] For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
    [19] By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
    [20] Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

    Many Bibles translate verse 18 that He was "put to death in the flesh, but quickened in the Spirit" and on the basis of this some claim that Christ is now a spirit and does not have flesh. However a look at Romans Chapter 8 shows that a believer with a body of flesh can be "not in the flesh, but in the Spirit" hense the phrase does not mean that this person is now a spirit lacking flesh.

    Romans chapter 8

    [7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
    [8] So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    [9] But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
    [10] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
    [11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

  • Blueblades
    Blueblades

    Hi HOOBERUS,Please help me out here.For anything about Jesus to be a TRUE BIBLE DOCTRINE,it first has to be established that the Bible itself is TRUE.

    Since there are many for and against the Bible, errancy vs.inerrancy,etc.How do you establish TRUE BIBLE DOCTRINE to begin with.

    Blueblades

  • hooberus
    hooberus

    This thread is intended to be a discussion of true teachings of the bible in the sense that the items quoted and discussed will be a proper exegis of Bible doctrine. The issue of the validity of the Bible itself, is for another thread.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    I have a question: When I was a Dub, one scripture we pointed to was "Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" 1Cor 15:42-50........as proof Jesus was resurrected a spirit. What say you?

    And why was Jesus linen cloths left in the tomb yet he was seen fully clothed at all times?

  • DJ
    DJ

    Thi Chi,

    I had to read it again and oooops. It is saying there that our bodies will be changed from flesh to spiritual, but they are still our bodies, just changed into something better. Jesus obviously had a body of flesh when he was raised, however I tend to think that in heaven he has a spiritual body. It is still the same body though, only changed. It says what it says. It is not something to argue over in my opinion...we shall see him as he really is someday and all of our questions will be answered. Hmmm, the clothes thing..well I suppose they were bloody. It doesn't mean that his body didn't rise. The bible says it did. love, dj

    Hooberus,

    This belief that Aguest has really bothers you. I suggest to you that you consider the above as a compromise between the two beliefs. I don't think that Jesus materialized another body to show Thomas. that's absurd. However, when he entered heaven, don't you think that His body of flesh became a spiritual body? The Mormons believe that He still has flesh and bones while in heaven. I don't think that is scripturally sound, do you? love, dj

    I do not claim to have all the answers, so please don't get that impression. I am open to all opinions as long as they coincide with the teachings in the bible. i don't think I'll ever understand all of it. I am not even sure if I want to. I need to keep my humility.

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    I have a question: When I was a Dub, one scripture we pointed to was "Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God" 1Cor 15:42-50........as proof Jesus was resurrected a spirit. What say you?

    The phrase flesh and blood is interpreted by the Watchtower to mean the "literal" substances of flesh and blood (ie: muscle tissue and haemoglobin blood cells). on the basis of this definition they reject the fleshly resurrection of Christ.

    Does this definition fit for example the account in Galatians chapter 1?

    [15] But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
    [16] To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
    [17] Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.
    [18] Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.
    [19] But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.

    Was paul saying that he did not confer with the literal substances of flesh and blood? If so then we could paraphase Paul's sentences to read:

    "But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with muscle tissue and haemoglobin blood cells: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days.But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother."

    Obviously if one substitutes the watchtower definition of flesh and blood as being literal in places where the term is mentioned such as Galatians the meaning makes no sense. Thus the term flesh and blood does not always refer to the literal substances of "flesh and blood" but to natural limited man.

    Matthew chapter 16

    [13] When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?
    [14] And they said, Some say that thou art John the Baptist: some, Elias; and others, Jeremias, or one of the prophets.
    [15] He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
    [16] And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
    [17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

    The same can be said for Matthew chapter 16, obviously Jesus was not saying that the literal substances of flesh and blood (ie: muscle tissue and blood cells) did not reveal who jesus was to him, but that he had learned who Jesus was not by natural but by super - natural means.

    The phrase "flesh and blood" is a thus synonym for the natural vs. the super natural.

    This can be shown by looking at Ephesians 6:12 where Paul is basically saying that our battle is not against the natural but against the super-natural.

    [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Hooberus,

    This belief that Aguest has really bothers you. I suggest to you that you consider the above as a compromise between the two beliefs. I don't think that Jesus materialized another body to show Thomas. that's absurd. However, when he entered heaven, don't you think that His body of flesh became a spiritual body? The Mormons believe that He still has flesh and bones while in heaven. I don't think that is scripturally sound, do you? love, dj

    The belifs of AGuest would also have bothered the apostles as well as church fathers (such as Ignatius who was a disciple of the apostle John). Ignatius taught that Jesus now is possessed of his same fleshly body. The following link gives the writings of Ignatius.

    http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-01/anf01-21.htm

    Chapter III.-Christ Was Possessed of a Body After His Resurrection.

    For I know that after His resurrection also He was still possessed of flesh, 18 and I believe that He is so now. When, for instance, He came to those who were with Peter, He said to them, "Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not an incorporeal spirit." 19 And immediately they touched Him, and believed, being convinced both by His flesh and spirit. For this cause also they despised death, and were found its conquerors. 20 And after his resurrection He did eat and drink with them, as being possessed of flesh, although spiritually He was united to the Father. And I know that He was possessed of a body not only in His being born and crucified, but I also know that He was so after His resurrection, and believe that He is so now. When, for instance, He came to those who were with Peter, He said to them, "Lay hold, handle Me, and see that I am not an incorporeal spirit." 21 "For a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me have." 22 And He says to Thomas, "Reach hither thy finger into the print of the nails, and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into My side; " 23 and immediately they believed that He was Christ. Wherefore Thomas also says to Him, "My Lord, and my God." 24 And on this account also did they despise death, for it were too little to say, indignities and stripes. Nor was this all; but also after He had shown Himself to them, that He had risen indeed, and not in appearance only, He both ate and drank with them during forty entire days. And thus was He, with the flesh, received up in their sight unto Him that sent Him, being with that same flesh to come again, accompanied by glory and power. For, say the [holy] oracles, "This same Jesus, who is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come, in like manner as ye have seen Him go unto heaven." 25 But if they say that He will come at the end of the world without a body, how shall those "see Him that pierced Him," 26 and when they recognise Him, "mourn for themselves? " 27 For incorporeal beings have neither form nor figure, nor the aspect 28 of an animal possessed of shape, because their nature is in itself simple.

    While his body is a spiritual body it is also a fleshly body. This is shown by the fact the He is still a man in heaven. This is also shown by the fact that he is still a fleshly decendant of David and hense has flesh.

    The teaching that Jesus still has flesh and bones is scriptural Ephesians 5:30 KJV, although the Mormon teaching that God the Father also has fleah and bones is not.

  • DJ
    DJ

    Hooberus,

    Some name you got there. lol. I don't yet see why it is so important. You may be correct about the "man" reference. I give you that, and I certainly never agreed with the lie about Jesus materializing another's body in order to prove to Thomas that it was Him. I think that Jesus wouldn't have said "it is I, myself" if it wasn't. We believe that Jesus rose from the dead without actually seeing him! This is what Jesus would be "blessed". Not like Aguest claimed that Jesus said people are blessed who believe that He was raised even though he had a different body.( I think I got her belief right) I must say though,I have a hard time picturing Jesus in heaven with flesh and bones now. What do you make of 1Timothy 6:14-16? This is speaking clearly about Jesus. dj

  • hooberus
    hooberus
    Some name you got there. lol. I don't yet see why it is so important. You may be correct about the "man" reference. I give you that, and I certainly never agreed with the lie about Jesus materializing another's body in order to prove to Thomas that it was Him. I think that Jesus wouldn't have said "it is I, myself" if it wasn't.

    This is an excellent point. Jesus use of the words "I, myself", "my hands" , "my feet" etc, show that the body was really his, not that it was manufactured for the moment.

    We believe that Jesus rose from the dead without actually seeing him! This is what Jesus would be "blessed". Not like Aguest claimed that Jesus said people are blessed who believe that He was raised even though he had a different body.( I think I got her belief right) I must say though,I have a hard time picturing Jesus in heaven with flesh and bones now. What do you make of 1Timothy 6:14-16? This is speaking clearly about Jesus. dj

    [14] That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
    [15] Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
    [16] Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

    Yes, the passage is talking about Jesus Christ. The phrase "whom no man hath seen, nor can see" does not mean that He does not have a physical body though.

    The phrase "whom no man hath seen" refers to the past as well as the present. Hense it also refers to the time when Jesus walked this earth. Since he had a fleshly body then, it cannot mean that he does not now have a fleshly body. I believe that the phrase is refering to the fact that no one can see God in his absolute glory. It is simiar to the situation in Exodous in which Moses could see God and yet not see his full glory.

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