Why Are You Here? (page 9)

David_Jay

What I am saying is I totally get how sickening it can feel sometimes to have a "believer" make you feel like you're living the whole Watchower experience again. Sure, co-existing is what is happening, but is it helping?

I get very hurt, beyond what a lot of people realize, when a Chrsistian blurts out things like: "You're headed for hell where you will burn forever if you stay a Jew." It is more than painful to the nerves to see people who leave the JWs adopt a similar view of a group that hates and judges and invents interpretations of books written by my people to validate their injustice. When you try to stand up and remind them that there is a possible way for a different understanding to be true...well, I am certain you can imagine.

Sometimes you just need your space to heal. Asking for it and marking it off is not wrong in itself. I can totally understand it.

David_Jay

No, not saying I was leaving. Just saying I understand the feeling and totally be okay if, by chance, that happened.

Giles Gray

Believer-"Yes, I understand that. But remember, believers were also muted by the same dogmatic believers. So a forum such as this is also the believer’s opportunity to regain their freedom of speech.They don’t want to lose it again either."

I agree fully. But just to point out that some, and I would guess most unbelievers, want to hear your points of view and have no desire to inhibit any freedom of speech.

Believer-"Surely there can be some respect for that so that every time the words “faith” or “spiritual” or “God” are brought up, the believer is not chastised or ridiculed for it."

I appreciate your wishes but it's just never going to happen in reality when you have a clash of such opposing perspectives. Maybe this is the price of freedom of speech?

People's frustrations will almost inevitably result in ridicule. Both sides are guilty, as were you yourself with one of your posts to me. But just to say that not all challenging questions are meant to be hostile.

If you take a look at Cofty's series of threads about evolution, there are a lot of spiteful and ridiculing comments that come from believers. He just gets on with it. It's going to happen.

Believer-"They should be just a free to say ‘I believe in God’ without have to prove why to those who really don’t care why."

But if we apply that as a rule, doesn't that inhibit unbelievers right to free speech? Isn't that what the JWs promote?

No one is forcing you to reply to their posts. You don't have to engage unbelievers. So you are free to say what you believe in and you don't have to prove nothing to anyone.

If you don't wish for your beliefs to be challenged then there are other sites that only let Christians post on them. But as far as I am aware, this is an open discussion forum, so it's going to happen.

Simon

It's funny how the righteous are now so worried about their right to free-speech ... after hundreds of years of butchering anyone who dared question the existence of their god.

There's a certain contrast too between forums that allow discussion of all topics, both sides, and those that are very pro-religious where I doubt that many questioning or opposing views are tolerated.

But we're the intolerant ones for not allowing a free-for all of religious expression?

Giles Gray

Simon
It's funny how the righteous are now so worried about their right to free-speech ... after hundreds of years of butchering anyone who dared question the existence of their god.

I know. My favourite is when you point out their intolerance towards homosexuals and their response is that by doing so, you are inhibiting their religious freedom and right to believe.

2+2=5

Atheists are, in my opinion, even lower in mentality.

I am so low in mentality, it's pure sin. I'm a full blown Jesus and God rejection weapon.

Could you imagine my thoughts? You would be shocked and traumatised if you could read my wicked atheist mind and get just a glimpse of my mentality. You may also become sexually aroused.

TheLiberator

Like many, I come here for information. The pain of discovering TTATT, was so great, that I naturally go into panic mode when I see a new one who has just discovered what I did. You just want to take away the pain. And so I just want to help those that I can. I have learned much in the last 18 months.

But honestly, recently I feel that my efforts would be better served elsewhere. Why do I say that? Well, Cofty said something on this thread that completely captured my frustration. Cofty's point in a nutshell: You cannot pick and choose what you want from the Bible and say you believe in the God of the Bible. If you believe in Jesus, you need to accept the whole package. Old Testament, with everything it says. You cannot dismiss that the Israelites were told to destroy "man, woman, and child", and then say you only believe in Jesus. Sorry, you must accept it all.

I agree with that. Otherwise, like Cofty said, if you think differently, then you think you know more than the God of the Bible.

This is why I feel the way I do. When someone comes here saying they believe in God, I get excited. But then that feeling, so many times, vanishes, because then you learn that they have all of these disconnected thoughts and feelings that have nothing to do with the Bible. If you believe in the God of the Bible, THE BIBLE IS ALL YOU HAVE FOR THE BASIS OF YOUR BELIEFS.

How and why, can I ignore the Bible and run with your ideas that have ZERO basis in scripture? THE BIBLE IS ALL WE HAVE. I am not talking about having different thoughts based on scripture. I am talking about that type of person that comes here and throws out ideas like for example: "I believe in Jesus and God, but I don't necessarily believe in the Bible."

"I believe in the Bible, but I believe Adam and Eve were aliens that God placed on this planet."

"I believe in the Bible, but I don't believe it is all inspired."

Those are just made up examples. But I have found out quickly that so many turn to this type of thinking. At that point, there is nothing more to say. A person can't be helped anymore using the Bible. The conversation is dead at that point. And so I may not be here as long as I thought I would be.

Giles Gray

2+2=5
Could you imagine my thoughts? You would be shocked and traumatised if you could read my wicked atheist mind and get just a glimpse of my mentality. You may also become sexually aroused.

Oh behave!

snare&racket

It's a big planet with lots of people.... Few of them know what a kingdom melody is or remembers what an S-8 form did or who Judge Rutherford was (no he isn't a WWF wrestler).... Even fewer humans on this planet have the experience of leaving such a belief system behind and those that do lose everyone and sometimes everything.

It's quite the unique experience.

Here we share it with others. Here we are not odd-balls with cult baggage.

Here we are survivors.

Here we drop messages as we rebuild and move on.

Believer

TheLiberator, nobody can tell you what you can and cannot believe, especially not someone who doesn’t even believe. Why does an atheist get to dictate what a believer must believe? Hogwash! If you’ve bought that argument, I can see why you are discouraged. If I were you, I’d let that foolishness go! If you’re a Christian, you must know that Jesus never said anything like that. He said believe in him. Have faith in him. Love God and love your neighbor. Do good unto others and let God be the judge. Even Paul said to turn away from the old law. Liberate yourself from all those restrictions, brother! Love God, love your neighbor and get on with life!!

Why Are You Here?

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