Reading The Bible Again After Leaving

by pale.emperor 58 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Hiemere
    Hiemere

    DJS wrote:

    I was amazed at how many theists routinely made definitive statements that atheists were immoral, murderous, fornicators since they did not believe in god (not god, really but THEIR god).
    ...I always refute these ridiculous assertions and accusations with empirical evidence, but the theists don't like empirical evidence; it hurts their tiny little brains and their feelings.
    ...I push back with sarcasm and biting wit, including mocking and humiliation when necessary. Those tactics work; it shuts the theist the fuck up up for a while, at least until another one comes along in a few days and says the same things.

    I can see that.

    But not all theists believe that about atheists. I'm a Roman Catholic. I have not only written several times that atheism can be a source for good, I think the world would lose a vital and very moral necessity if the rationalism and security found in many atheists and their views were lost.

    So you can't judge every theist by the example of the worst ones you come into contact with. That was what I was saying. Stalin, for instance, is one of the worst examples of a human being I can think of, not to mention a very bad example of what an atheist is or should be. It would thus be illogical to judge atheists by what Stalin's Communism has done.

    Thus I understand the emotional scars and how they cause this reaction. But there comes a time that if we want to stand for reason, that we have to respond with reason and not react with emotion. I never wrote in any of most posts anything against atheism, but I got judged as if I had. This judgment was made not upon evidence, examination, test, or anything logical--and by people who claim that logic is they way to go--but emotion.

    The original post and the thread is merely about reading the Bible again without Watchtower influence. Nothing else. Look what we are discussing! It's about an emotional response that caused an assumption about me, my views, and what I was writing about.

    I find no evil in atheism and have little tolerance for those who do. I'm not advocating my personal convictions either. There shouldn't be a problem, and I feel for you, I really do. I am truly sorry for how you and your views have been treated. But just because a lot of atheists have told me I was an idiot and said horrible and false things about me doesn't me I treat them in any way less than giving them the honor they deserve as people. I would lose something very vital to my life if I turned a deaf ear to others just because they did not share my views. I understand if you cannot or choose not to be the same way as you don't owe me anything, and I don't judge you for your "sarcasm...mocking and humiliation" if that is the way you choose.

    I'm here worshipping burning bushes and virgin births. Who am I to judge?

  • DJS
    DJS

    Hiemere,

    In the words of that great 20th Century sage, Tina Turner, I can do this nice and easy, or I can do this nice and rough.Or something like that.

    I'm not here to welcome newbies, to get help with anything or to keep my finger on the pulse of whatever the DarkLords are up to. I couldn't care less.

    I'm here because I think I've something to share and that I can help people live a better life, with or without a god.

    That mission means that I at times have to be a CDC warrior, trying to inoculate the masses while simultaneously destroying the disease or infection.

    It is a noble cause.

  • Hiemere
    Hiemere
    I'm here because I think I've something to share and that I can help people live a better life, with or without a god.
    That mission means that I at times have to be a CDC warrior, trying to inoculate the masses while simultaneously destroying the disease or infection.
    It is a noble cause.

    It seems that was the same thing ex-JWs were saying in the name of religion while they were members of their local Kingdom Hall.

    Oddly, some people who were attracted to or in the JW religion and then have left it still have this "mission" I will never understand--whether it's religion or atheism, you are still here "to share" what you believe can "help people" which includes "trying to inoculate the masses" against the views that aren't yours. Even as ex-JWs some still believe that the views of others are some sort of "disease or infection" that you set out to "destroy" with "mocking and humiliation when necessary." To me, I see no difference in what you were and what you have become.

    As I told someone else on another thread, ex-JWs don't have the best track record for claiming they now have "something to share...that I can help people live a better life" with. Sounds like the same pitch I heard when they tried to get me to study the Live Forever book in the 1980s.

    Jehovah's Witnesses offer nothing but "truth" that leads to spiritual and intellectual death, in a sense killing people with their "something to share...that can help people." Just because you are an ex-member doesn't make you an expert on what truth really is. I would not trust a surgeon who killed every patient he operated on because he followed some pseudo-medicine he believed was "the truth," even if he claimed he had now rejected that pseudo-medicine belief now. "Trust me to operate on you, as I won't kill you now."

    JWs claim to have all the answers and oddly a few ex-JWs claim to still have this status. I am supposed to accept that whatever newfound view they adopt afterward is enough to make them a "warrior" with the ability to judge whether my or anyone else's views are a "disease or infection" that deserves to be 'destroyed.' This is the same line of crap you probably told people about the teachings of the JWs when you were one and how you felt against "false religion" and "the philosophy of the world." It sounds to me like you just like to join things or adopt views that make you feel right and give you the impression of being this "warrior" in your "noble cause" against what you again, like you did as a JW, view as a "disease." Yesterday it was "the true religion," today it might be your atheist views, tomorrow it will be what?

    I didn't buy your pitch when you were holding a Watchtower in your hand and I'm not buying it now with this "new" thing you are trying to "inoculate" me with.

  • DJS
    DJS

    So you aren't buying a life lived wherein important decisions for us as individuals as well as our species and planet are made by evidence and facts rather than superstition and belief in made up gods?

    You theists have had your era, and it is coming to an end because it has caused so much death, destruction and divisiveness.

    It is being replaced by something much better. I figured if I kept prodding and poking your true colors would show.

    I'm waiting on you to condemn me and all like me to hell and or destruction at the hands of Daddys Lil" Monster.

    Go ahead. Make my day.

  • Hiemere
    Hiemere
    So you aren't buying a life lived wherein important decisions for us as individuals as well as our species and planet are made by evidence and facts rather than superstition and belief in made up gods?

    I'm not buying what you are selling.

    I have no problem if my religion is wrong and I need to choose being an atheist. But I would not accept it from you. Why not?

    I think it would be irrational for me to accept what you have to offer. Weren't you someone who was SO SURE about everything they believed when they were at my doorstop with their Watchtower magazines, Kingdom tracts, etc., you know, when as a Witnesses you told me that the world was "coming to an end" any day now. I used to hear how being a Catholic and thus a member of "Babylon the Great" made me marked for death by Jehovah because my religion had "caused so much death, destruction and divisiveness." You are still singing the same, old song. What's the difference? You were so sure you were right then, and you are still that obstinate person now.

    "You theists have had your era." Yeah, I heard that from Russell: "The Gentiles Times have ended. The kings have had their day." Same song you're singing, just a few change of the lyrics.

    "You theists have had your era, and it is coming to an end...It is being replaced by something much better." Yeah, I heard that in 1975 when my friend Leshaun was trying to get me to be a baptized Witness. Same promises, different brand, that is all that you are selling. Sorry, I don't buy snake oil.

  • Hiemere
    Hiemere

    And Catholics don't believe that atheists are condemned and will go to hell. That is not true, at least not in our belief system.

  • DJS
    DJS

    I couldn't care less if you're a theist or not. I've spent the past 20 plus years living an evidence based life, without the influence of religion.

    Facts, Evidence and Rational Thought are the only things I'm 'selling.'

    They are anathema to theists, so I'm not surprised you don't want any of that.

    Now let's see if amongst the multitude of words you use you can avoid saying again that you're not buying something.

    Here's betting you cant.

  • Hiemere
    Hiemere

    Were you ever one of Jehovah's Witnesses?

  • Hiemere
    Hiemere

    Not a hard question to answer, DJS, and not as if I haven't read what you posted about your past.

  • DJS
    DJS

    Who said it was a hard question?

    Of course I was a dub. I have clearly explained why I'm here after 20 years out of that cult and away from religion. Why are you here? You paint your catholicism as if it is a kinder and gentler x-tian cult. As a snapshot in time it has evolved to some degree to be more tolerant. But it has a long and inglorious history. So you represent every much of a cult mind controlled religion as the dubs; you're just a generation or two removed from the really horrific parts. Need I remind you? If I had to compare the dubs with the catholics and included recent and not so recent history, you don't come off looking so well.

    Why are you here? What are you selling? What type of influence are you peddling? Are you trying to get converts? Do you think a site of ex-dubs is fertile hunting grounds, as so many theists before you?

    Why are you here?

    Do you know what I did for 20 years? Or anything else about me? And why do you take affront by those who propose a way of living and making decisions based on rational thought, evidence and facts?

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