The hope is biden meant it when he said we are not enemies. But his party at times has said I am one.
The fear is it will soon be president harris with the same background manipulators pulling the strings.
We did not like trumps personality.
Mr. Minimus, how do you feel?
by AbelJohn 70 Replies latest jw friends
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Magnum
pale.emperor: good, fair question. I will try to answer from my point of view. It's not about liking Trump. It's about liking things he says he will do and is doing. It's not about voting for the morals (or lack thereof) of a candidate. It's not (or shouldn't be) a personality contest.
I want somebody who will be fair to the U.S. and not let China, etc. get the best of it. I want somebody who will make other nations do their fair share in sending aid, supporting various international entities, etc. I'm tired of the U.S.'s doing more than its fair share.
I want strictly controlled borders. I don't want to be flooded by illegals who get free medical treatment that will ultimately come out of my paycheck. I swear I go to some places in the U.S and get looked at funny because I speak English. I don't like that. I don't want the U.S. to become like Mexico or India or China or Venezuela.
I don't want anything that even remotely smells like socialism; it doesn't work. If everybody would do his best and give the best he could, it would work. However, many, if not most, won't. Through years of just plain living in the U.S. and a decade of regular pioneering knocking on thousands of doors, I gradually learned that there are a lot of sorry, lazy people who don't want to do their fair share and who want and expect the system to take care of them. I encountered countless women who popped out one baby after the other and got a bigger government handout with each one. They referred to the babies' fathers as "baby daddies". Most of the baby daddies didn't pay child support. I'm sick of that, and I want somebody to stop such. I don't want to pay for their babies.
Most left-leaning liberals that I encounter have the peace and love mentality of hippies from the 1960's as if everybody's good and we should all take care of each other. That peace and love experiment didn't work. Hippies ended up sick, hungry, etc. Wikipedia says this concerning the hippies flocking to the Haight-Ashbury district in San Francisco: "The Haight-Ashbury could not accommodate this rapid influx of people, and the neighborhood scene quickly deteriorated. Overcrowding, homelessness, hunger, drug problems, and crime afflicted the neighborhood. Many people left in the autumn to resume their college studies." I really believe that open borders will eventually lead something like this happening in the U.S.
That liberal idealism should be conquered by conservative realism. The real truth is that many aren't worthy of receiving the "peace and love". If liberals think that everybody is so good and worthy, then they should try owning a business and finding good employees. Really good, worthy people are hard to find and I don't want to support those who aren't really deserving.
A lot of us don't like those things you mentioned about Trump, but the issue is much, much bigger than those things.
Suppose you have a malignant tumor deep in your brain. Whom do you want to attempt to surgically fix the situation - the arrogant jerk who's shown he can do it and has been doing it... or the bumbling old nice doctor* who's clueless and has never done the surgery?
* I don't think Biden is any more moral or any nicer or kinder than Trump. Trump is just out with it, whereas Biden is phony and deceptive. If they're both venomous snakes, then Trump is coiled up in the driveway ready to strike, whereas, Biden is hidden in the grass.
edited to add: I also am infuriated by the fact that some (certainly not all) want to come to the U.S. and change it to be like where they came from. Why the hell don't they just stay where they are then? Another reason I want strictly controlled borders.
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pale.emperor
Thanks Magnum for your reply. I understand what you're saying now.
I understand your point about paying for other people's babies. I wouldn't swap our NHS for anything though. We all use it here in the UK. And sure as hell gonna need it when I'm old.
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Magnum
pale.emperor: I have mixed feelings about NHS. Since leaving JWdom and losing my hope that everything is going to be divinely fixed, I'm still confused and trying to sort and figure things out. I think some kind of NHS would be great, but, again, I'm just concerned about all those who don't deserve it benefitting by it. And the money still has to come from people who work.
I will certainly need some kind of medical help as I age, but right now, my wife and I are paying for health insurance.
I will keep an open mind and could, of course, quite possibly be wrong and change my feelings. I appreciate your thoughts and input.
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princecharmant
Minimus is in his bunker.
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DesirousOfChange
Can someone seriously explain to me what the appeal of Trump is/was?~ Pale Emporer
Pale, I think you are relying too much on the major media outlets for your info.
Yes, I believe it is factual that Trump disparaged a disabled reporter. But I don't recall the context. Check it out.
No, Trump did not support white supremacists. That has all been twisted and taken out of context. Check it out.
Yes, he called Mexicans (illegally in the US) who had raped women -- rapists. Seems too blunt? Truth hurts! He also called some "murders". Why? They were arrested as suspects for these crimes. HE DID NOT apply it to the entire Mexican population.
Yes, he bragged about grabbing women by the pu**y. He excused it as "locker room talk" (as did at least half of US citizens). Tell me you haven't said something condescending about some hot ass women who walked by to your drinking buddys.
Trump's appeal is he was not/is not from the "Swamp" of career politicians in Washington DC. Yes, he could be (and often was) crude, brash, rude, brusk (and add several other adjectives of your choice) especially on Twitter. BUT, he didn't whitewash and sugarcoat his public statements while he knew he was lying through his teeth."What you see, is what you get" with Trump.
Trump lowered taxes on the middle class person. I still pay over 50% in taxes on anything I earn at the end of the year. Your tax rate in UK may be higher, but I pay for my own medical coverage ($900/month) and my own retirement plan. I think I am "giving enough" to the less fortunate.
Trump improved the economy tremendously. The stock market was at record highs. Yes, I do personally own stocks, but even Americans who do not personally own stocks, still have much of their retirement based on investments in the market. A strong stock market isn't just for the upper class and wealthy.
Unemployment was at record lows for ALL demographics -- black, Latino, women, etc. Wages were rising (without passing legislation to raise the minimum wage) because he improved on the shitty trade deals that had been made over the previous decades. China. Mexico. Canada. Europe.Business was moving back to the USA and new plants were being opened.
Trump ended the 20-year (endless) wars in the Middle East. Fuck Syria. Fuck Iraq. Fuck Afghanistan. etc etc Let them fight it out on their own just has they've been doing for decades (maybe centuries). Just don't let them go nuclear. Thus, squash Iran and their threats. What a bumbling fuckup the Obama/Biden Iran Deal was! JFC!
Did you hear anything about Trump being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize? How about THREE OF THEM? All having to do with peace agreements in the Middle East and with Serbia and Kosovo. If you heard about it, it was probably a "blip" in the news and gone. He was the first US President to receive three nominations coming from three different foreign nations.
Under Trump the US became energy independent. NO MORE BEING HELD HOSTAGE BY OPEC! Instead the US was EXPORTING oil. Gas in my hometown yesterday was as low as $1.52/US Gallon. Yes, I was happy driving my (comparably inefficient) Cadillac and Lincoln and SUV and even happier at the gas pump when filling them up.
Trump was not a politician. He was genuine. You might not like his genuineness, but he was "real".
Did you realize he donated his presidential salary ($400,000 annually) to charity every year? Last quarter it was to the US Veteran Cemeteries. While other politicians and their families (need I say Hunter Biden, but also google Nancy Pelosi's husband's biz and AOC's boyfriend -- paid as consultant by her, and Ilhan Omar's husband -- he was paid almost $1million by her campaign), Trump and any of his family members involved were all working for free. AND, there was no kind of collusion with Russia or anywhere else discovered about the Trump family where they were raking in million$ as did the Clinton's "charity" and Biden's.
Now, please help me understand the appeal of Sleepy Joe Biden if you can.
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frozen2018
What did I like about Trump?
- The tax cut - I'm not a millionaire or billionaire. Despite the false narrative I did see a reduction in my middle income taxes. I think most honest people would admit the same.
- Renegotiating NAFTA - Mexico and Canada were screwing the US royally.
- Sanctions on China - If Mexico and Canada were screwing the US, China was/is/will continue to gang fuck the US. China is run by some of most nasty people on the planet. Active genocide against native born Muslims. Harvesting organs from living "donors." Stealing intellectual property. Stealing from African nations. Taking over Hong Kong. I could go on and on but I'm sure President Biden will hold them accountable. Maybe he'll send Hunter and some NBA ballers over there to straighten them out.
- Killing select terrorists.
- Fixing up the military.
- Bit of a paradox, but after fixing up the military not starting or expanding any wars. I hope he brings the troops home before he leaves office.
- Requiring NATO to pay their "fair share."
- Pulling out of the Paris Accord.
- Recognizing that the TTP was another bullshit trade deal and walking away.
- Seating hundreds of judges that view the Constitution as the legitimate document it really is. This includes 3 Supreme Court justices.
- Eliminating thousands of stupid and costly regulations.
- I like Trump's energy. Hard to imagine that he is in his 70's as is Biden. A real study in contrast.
- Trump's a fighter. There probably is not anyone on the Planet that could take the daily beat down Trump withstood and still be standing.
- Shaking hands with Kim Jong-un and setting foot in North Korea.
- The Abraham Accords
- He has a hot wife. I'll end there.
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MeanMrMustard
All snarky comments aside.
OK - serious time.
Can someone seriously explain to me what the appeal of Trump is/was?
He stopped the move left.
Because I can't get my head around how anyone managed to ignore his incoherent ramblings....
He wasn’t articulate. But either is Biden, although the media won’t be nearly as critical of Biden. Trump was sometimes imprecise. Sometimes he was very precise.
But you said you are having a hard time getting your head around it. It’s been said many times - so let’s try it again. It’s not about Trump. Why does it matter to you so much that your candidate has to be charismatic? Does that charisma get you anything when white people are declared de facto racists? Does it get you anything when the tax rate grows to 62%? How can the charisma make you feel good when you are staring down the consequences to a Green New Deal?
making fun of a disabled reporter
Come on, that’s been debunked a billion times. He wasn’t doing that.
refusal to denounce white supremacists,
Good forking lord, now you can’t be serious. There are videos of Trump, right now, on YouTube, of Trump denouncing white supremacists for 9 minutes, just over and over.
calling Mexicans rapists,
*sigh* You aren’t serious.
bragging about molesting women etc etc etc
He never did that. See, this is the exact problem. That has been out there for a long time. And on this forum. Either you are willfully ignorant, or malicious.
Genuinely seeking answers. Surely you wouldn't accept this stuff from Biden?
If Biden grabs a woman by the pussy because that woman WANTS it and volunteers it, then why the fuck would I care?
I am having a hard time thinking you are serious.
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millie210
pale.emperor2 hours ago
All snarky comments aside. Can someone seriously explain to me what the appeal of Trump is/was? Because I can't get my head around how anyone managed to ignore his incoherent ramblings, making fun of a disabled reporter, refusal to denounce white supremacists, calling Mexicans rapists, bragging about molesting women etc etc etc
Genuinely seeking answers. Surely you wouldn't accept this stuff from Biden?
I know you to be a sincere person and I understand your basis for asking.
Many people who supported Trump feel as you do. You will notice the things you mentioned above were rather inflammatory in nature and were fed to us by the media. Lets set them aside a moment.
Imagine your little girl needed an emergency heart surgery...it had to be quick. You were told the BEST surgeon was a jack ass and a womanizer and racist but had never lost a patient and was considered the worlds best pediatric cardiology surgeon. kind of like Gregory House on House M.D. (the tv show). Your other choice was a fine Dr who was just competent but no genius and his track record was average.
Who do you choose? For myself, all my high moral ground would vanish and I would choose whomever I thought gave the best odds of success for my beloved child.
SO there are a lot of people who looked at Trumps presidency that way. He was shrewd in how he looked at the global economy. He was fearless in calling it as he saw it which made other world leaders who hide under rocks, for the most part, did not like it when he kicked over their rocks so to speak. He understood that just as a family (however goodhearted and charitable) could not keep taking strangers into their home endlessly without compromising the home - America as a home could not allow its self to be overrun with illegal immigrants. His wording was brash and harsh and he was abrupt and rude in dealing with people but it is a sign of wisdom to look beyond what is being said and look at what's being done. America was clambering to its feet again under his 4 years economically.
A lot of people were willing to overlook his lack of social ability based on his results. These are things that supporters of Trump have expressed to me. Business people who saw construction pick back up, farmers who saw a way to continue rather than sell out, military families (my personal experience) who saw respect coming back to the military.
Yes, you can go anywhere on line and see statistics that will say he did a terrible job. You can also find stats telling you what a fine job Democrats have done. Statistics be as they will, I mentioned above the things I personally witnessed that were positives for the country.
I dont think he started out to be who he is now. I think it was probably more of an "I can be president and do a good job" thing. But once he got there and they started the attacks, the leaders in the house SITTING and refusing to stand when he entered in an official capacity - the tattered state of the military - the general slime that coats all of our political leaders of both parties - it started to be personal to him - I believe he honestly thought our country was in more competent hands than he found it to be. He was wrong. We have all been wrong in thinking our leaders are leading.
Most of them (on both sides) have been bought out by the oligharchy of big business, big pharma, tech giants as well as Foundations such as the ones run by Gates and Soros. Facebook, Twitter, Google, control our information. Other giant monoliths control our food and water. Now with the virus, we get to see a high level of control over our choices there as well.
I dont think anyone, Republican or Democrat, if they speak from a non-emotional viewpoint, thinks Biden is up to the task of taking on all of that. But then, a lot of people (myself included) don't think people voted for Biden - it was more of a vote against Trump or for Trump. They just want him gone.
Humor me with one more illustration and I will stopImagine you are in a room with two men. Your goal is to get out of the room but you must take one - the other will not survive. One man is smelly, unkempt wino, and rude - the other is clear-eyed, intelligent and likable, charming in fact.
Most of us would pick the obvious guy. But what if you were told ahead of time he was Ted Bundy? Or just insert any clean, charming, intelligent sociopath here - it doesn't matter. The moral is, you can't always go by someone's offensive presentation when judging their skill and ability. People should have been looking at the reaction from the Democratic leaders each time Trump did something rash and offensive. Their disrespect for the office of the presidency, their utter rage at him pointing out their graft add incompetence.
IF I was a Democrat OR a Republican I would have been watching that just as closely as I watched Trump. And I will close with no, I don't think Biden is bad although I do see that he has covered over his son's misdeeds and I do find the hair sniffing of young girls off putting - I could look past that if I thought he could take on China and the rest of the world and if he could keep the big businesses from butting into the running of this country but alas he cannot. He is old, weak, and confused. It's the people running things behind the scenes I feel a pit in my stomach over.
I am afraid that in our (Americans) not liking the frying pan - we have jumped into the fire.
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DesirousOfChange
Millie, you're so damn articulate in it all!