A problem for believers

by Bugbear 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  scratchme1010

  How stupid to believe that only you have the wisdom of God….!
  

  I am in no way a believer, but I think that your ideas address only part of what religion and religious organizations are and do. What you describe is absolutely true, but is far from the complete picture.

  It's neither complete nor fair for religion to be depicted only and exclusively for what they claim to be in relationship with the god they worship. Organized religion plays an important role in society. They do a lot more than simply try to make their people believe what they preach. Furthermore, there are plenty of churches and religious denominations that never force their own believes in people and where it's perfectly fine to not understand or believe in everything.

  Also, there is a major difference between religious believes and religious abuse of people or abuse of religion itself. Most-to-all of those people who you see fervently claiming that their way or their god is the one and only are in fact abusing religion and abusing others in the name of religion. That is not what all religions do.

  Then there are charities, foundations, social work, schools, religious clubs, retreats, and many other things in which religious organizations are involved that help and plays a major role in communities. Cults, abusive churches and groups that are there for the sole purpose of enriching themselves and exercise power over others are the organizations that may fit more what you describe. Most of those harmful groups do nothing for the community where their people live. Those are the ones pushing their people to believe that there's no other way than theirs. Many, many other religious organizations are nothing like that.
• 

  JWdaughter

  this topic has turned out more interesting than I thought it would. I have nothing deeper to contribute than that, but I will say that I always enjoy David Jay's thoughtful insights and information.
• 

  anointed1

  What would have happened if there were no religions? Would we have found ourselves believers in God? Situation would definitely be different. It’s like what happened in Mosco zoo which did a unique experiment . They made one part of the zoo for the fresh species (those who are removed from their parents immediately after the birth). Not seeing what their seniors are doing, even carnivorous animals became vegetarians and lived in peace with other animals.

  Humans have no time to experiment such things as they are deeply embroiled in their greed thus suffer from limited vision, hence cannot have overall view on anything. They will be mechanical on the question of what is right and wrong. But the very nature of what is right and wrong has to do with overall view. Donating a house to a homeless person is right when done by an individual. But same act when done by a King is wrong because king is bound to help all the homeless persons; helping only one person would be partiality. That means viewing as a whole is the key. When viewed as a whole, even materialists do a great service because it is our experience that without them the religionists would become extreme human rights violators. It means even atheists (though working independent of God) work for the good of the humanity.

  Viewing as a whole comes with experience. In such experience even the question “Does God exist?” is irrelevant. That question has not been lived, experienced. It is just a bunch of: “Yes, because …….or No, because…….” then we add stuff to support our thinking……no experience. If there is experience, that question wouldn’t be asked.
  
• 

  Cold Steel

  Bugbear » A majority of the world’s population acknowledge that they believe in a superior God or in their creator. They also claim that they have got this special understanding and knowledge of his will and his law. None of these religious people can however [prove] that their God actual exists.

  Religion isn't about proof. But it doesn't preclude evidence, either. I've found when I offer people evidence about religious things, they reject it. As someone once said, when someone asks for evidence, you can be sure evidence is the last thing they're interested in. It's the nature of every religious believer (and this includes atheists, who have a religious conviction as deep as any fundamentalist). People have their own beliefs and many adopt the religion they were born into. I believe that only by seeking God can one find him. But when it comes to proving there is no God, I've seen no evidence to do that. One can say, "I don't believe there's a God," but one cannot say they know God does not exist.

  In the Bible, religion is based on people who said they saw God. Moses saw God, he said, and spoke face to face with him. Then seventy of the elders of Israel saw him. In my own religion, our own leaders have claimed to see him, and had the mininstration of angels. If my church leaders said (as do the Governing Body) that they had not heard from God, I wouldn't have anything to do with them. What good to me would they be?

  If my church was a one man band, it would be one thing. But there are many prophets who to this day claim to communicate with God.
• 

  fukitol

  Its called The Argument From Confusion.

  Google it.

  Some great articles on infidels.org for example.
• 

  tepidpoultry

  Scratchme1010:

  I've always bought into the idea of "credit where credit is due" in regard to

  religion,

  As well, a sense of community is imperative to mental health,
  

  According to my own belief system I do believe that a secular system

  like the Humanists offer a number of advantages, but such groups are

  scarce in comparison

  :0)
• 

  Vidiot

  JWdaughter - "...I will say that I always enjoy David Jay's thoughtful insights and information..."

  'Course we do.

  That's 'cause Dave actually has a head full of actually useful, interesting, and accurate information.
• 

  the-Question

  Dawkins was an idiot.

  The last thing I wanted to be was a JW....until I KNEW better!
• 

  tepidpoultry

  @the-Question

  "Dawkins was an idiot"

  One: Dawkins is alive

  past tense/present tense, past tense/present tense

  Talk to your Ministry School Overseer, he may be able to help you out

  with this,

  Two: If I call you you a "Poopie Head" that says more about my

  intellect (or lack of it) than it does yours, don't you think?

  :0)