Remembering Rutherford (page 9)

Rivergang

In that video posted by Dropofyourkeylee, we see Rutherford kissing fruit.

Hardly the actions of a sober man, I would have thought!

Rocketman123

He acts a bit doused in that video.

Well he was against prohibition.

As I mentioned before he was a man who lived for his own pleasures and accomplished this by the money and power the WTS had in it and what it could create through his own publications.

He was the top dog and no one could take that away from him.

At a time when the US was going through great financial hard times (the Great Depression) he lavished himself in pleasures, a king in his own self built Kingdom if you will..

Hey minimus, it looks like you 17 years ago were not convinced that there was any evidence that Rutherford did anything immoral. In that regard my view is the same as yours back then. For example on the page at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/77915/rutherford-exposed-story-berta-bonnie?page=2 you said the following.

'There were quite a few interesting tidbits about the 3. But other than a titillating review of hearsay, I don't think anyone's nailed Rutherford. Do I think he was everything that you've suggested here? Yup. But I don't see clear "evidence" of anything immoral that Rutherford did. BTW, YOU are one who is always looking for facts and evidence. I hope that you can see that your "expose' " doesn't really prove anything.'

I guess you later changed your views about whether there was evidence of Rutherford doing something immoral and maybe I will have the same view as well after I do more research.

Folks, at https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/77915/rutherford-exposed-story-berta-bonnie?page=5 amac 17 years ago wrote the following.

'This is very interesting, I hope research can find more evidence to back this up. It seems very believable to me, but I have to agree with Minimus and Undercover, it seems "unusable" as proof to current JW's.

It's a shame to see attacks on someone being skeptical of serious accusations. Skepticism should be welcomed when trying to decipher the truth about something. It's a shame when it is taken personally.

Minimus is correct...hearsay from a "friend" who was an elder and was confessed to and was also privy to information between Knorr and the subject is LIGHT YEARS away from a quote from a named elder who can be verified as serving at the time. I understand the need to possibly keep his name confidential, but skepticism should be understood as well.

Thank you Farkel for starting this thread and putting the information together.'

Maybe as I read more of the topic thread that the above two comments (from 17 years ago) were posted in I will change my views about Rutherford.

However, in some of Rutherford's books I have noticed statements by him that seem to be hints of him admitting having done certain things (or of him allowing himself to do certain things in the future). Such things include the following: authorizing the use of violent force (but not involving guns) at a WT convention against protestors; of saying that laws against prohibition (of alcoholic drinks) are not enforced by police upon the wealthy but only upon the poor and that laws prohibiting consumption of alcoholic drinks are unjust; saying the definition of a lying is the act of saying an intended falsehood to someone who is entitled to know the truth (such a definition allows one to decide that is fine to tell falsehoods to certain people and government agencies [ones deemed not to deserve to know the truth] - a practice that the WT legal team currently does in some child abuse court cases); saying that a person is entitled to kill another person if the person that would be killed would otherwise have murdered oneself or someone in one's household (he uses as support the example in the Bible of Moses striking dead an Egyptian who was attacking a Hebrew and says Moses was not guilty of any wrong in doing so).

Disillusioned JW

Rocketman123, just as millions of JWs today believe that the New World order (in which the Earth will be transformed into a paradise) administered by Jesus Christ (from heaven) will be here very soon and thus they believe millions alive today will never die, Rutherford likely believed much of what Russell taught would happen due to Christ's reign. Rutherford's idea of millions now living will never die is based upon Russell's teaching that Christ's kingdom will start to have full sway immediately after October 1914. As as a result, Rutherford like other people who converted to the religion of the WT, likely was sincere about millions never dying. If he was sincere then he was not a charlatan (just deluded). Dictionaries define charlatan as 'a person who pretends to have skills or knowledge that they do not have'. If a person was sincere in what they were saying then they were not putting on a pretense and thus were not charlatans, even if they were incorrect in what they were saying.

When I was an active JW (including while I was a regular pioneer and while I was a ministerial servant) and especially prior to the 1990 I thought I might live forever without ever dying and I hoped I would never die. I was thus not a charlatan for proclaiming to others the WT teachings about the prospect of living forever without ever experiencing death (which are based upon biblical teachings attributed to Jesus Christ). [See John 11:25-26 and Matthew 5:3, 10, 12 for examples along with Daniel 2:34-35, 44-45, Daniel 7:13-14, 21-22, 27, and Daniel 12:1-2, as well as Revelation 20:1-3 and Revelation 21:1-4 .]

Before I became baptized as a JW my JW father taught me (and my sister) the core WT doctrines by studying with us the WT book (from 1968) called The Truth that leads to Eternal Life (that book made the The Guinness Book of Records regarding the number of copies distributed and/or printed) and by studying some other WT books (including the 1958 WT book called From Paradise Lost to Paradise Regained, which I and my sister studied while we were very young children). I believed in what those books taught. After I became baptized (at under the age of 18 years) the WT came out with the book (in 1982) called You Can Live Forever in Paradise on Earth. I studied that book thoroughly in the congregation meetings and I believed in it. I later (while a regular pioneer) conducted in-home Bible studies (with non-JWs) using it as the textbook. I thus don't have difficulty in believing that Rutherford was sincere in teaching that 'millions now living will never die'. I also believe that Russell was sincere in what he taught in his WT books.

minimus

Dis, in CONTEXT, my comments to Farkel meant this: Farkel verbally beat up anyone who couldn’t “prove” what they were alleging. If I said , elders were told by Circuit Overseers that such and such a thing was policy, he would say PROVE IT! If it was a conversation between you and the CO and it was not provable, he would dismiss your statement as not being verifiable or possibly truthful. So I gave him back his own medicine. Like I said, I believed everything he suggested there.

Disillusioned JW

OK, regarding regarding your comments to Farkel. Thanks for clarifying.

minimus

Dis, I was reading quite a bit of that thread. A lot of research there! Earnest, the poster, who I believe was associated with Watchtower and maybe became a Dawnist?? Has excellent responses to Farkel and company. All in all a great thread 🧵!

Rocketman123

DJ you seem inspired to white wash over the fact that the WTS leaders particularly Rutherford were false prophet apostates who commercialized a false gospel, in other words corrupt charlatanism.

Lies are lies, false doctrines to manipulate and exploit people with false hopes are immoral and sinful from a Christian viewpoint.

Sounds like you still have heart strings attached to the JWS cult.

You do realize that this religious cult has lied to people unremittingly, caused thousands of deaths, ruined many lives and broken apart millions of families.

Does that sound like the objective toward Christian values to you ?

The whole endeavor behind the Watchtower Corporation was sinful false teachings or apostasy from a scriptural viewpoint.

If Rutherford really believed in saving himself for god's approval he wouldn't have basked himself in riches and corruption, aside from adultery.

minimus

Rocket man, hard hitting but I understand your point. It could be that Dis is simply not like everyone else. He has to make sure of all things about everything. Watchtower Organization is clearly wrong about most things. Doctrines, chronology, prophecies, etc. It’s hard to defend so much wrongness.

Disillusioned JW

Rocketman123, you say the non-profit WT corporation is commercialized but where it the evidence of such? I have seen no evidence of such. If it could be proven that it is run as a for-profit commercial entity and if such to be made widely known then JWs would stop contributing to it in droves. The WT is also not a false prophet in the biblical sense (rather than the common usage sense of the public today). I prophet is someone who received a revelation/communication directly from God (or a god or spirit) and then told others the message; and a false prophet is someone who falsely claimed to be such a prophet. The WT has never made such claims after I was born (and only a couple of so times in their entire history did they possibly make such claims). The false predictions that they made were merely interpretations of what the scriptures say, not alleged new revelations. I guess you were never a JW since you don't see anything good in the organization and since you make some false claims about it. I also don't consider them to have been a cult prior to the year 2010, but lately they are acting considerably cult-like. I won't take the time to address your other accusations about them.

Remembering Rutherford

Share this