An interesting Observation of some Bibles

Blotty

First of all, Hi, I go by Blotty on this website :) I am someone who has a passion for the bible and like to get a as balanced view as I can from the trinitarian and the JW (or unitarian) side - even though I come off as leaning towards one or the other at times, In my opinion they both have merits in certain cases..

If this is in the wrong section I apologise - This is just something I found interesting.
Iv seen online a lot that say the Watchtower and Tract society "invented" the link between Proverbs 8:22 - 30 and Jesus (The Word). Yet interestingly some "mainstream" "trinitarian- aimed" translations are cross referencing the following:

source:https://www.biblegateway.com

Prov 8:22 CR Rev 3:14
NIV, GNT,ESV, NASB, NASB1995, NASBRE, CEV

Prov 8:30 CR John 1:1,2
ESV NASB

Prov 8:30 CR John 1:3
ESV
NASB1995
NASB

(This list is by no means complete)

if this is simply wisdom, Why is it referenced with Jesus (or The Word)?

Earnest

Blotty, this doesn't actually address your question but it's interesting that the link between Proverbs 8:22 and Jesus (The Word) was already made by the Early Church Fathers.

Justin Martyr - Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter LXI

" ... that God begat before all creatures a Beginning, [who was] a certain rational power [proceeding] from Himself, who is called by the Holy Spirit, now the Glory of the Lord, now the Son, again Wisdom, again an Angel, then God, and then Lord and Logos;"

Tertullian - Against Praxeas, Chapter VI

The Word of God is Also the Wisdom of God. The Going Forth of Wisdom to Create the Universe, According to the Divine Plan.

Origen - On Principles, Book I: Chapter 2:1

For He is termed Wisdom, according to the expression of Solomon: “The Lord created me—the beginning of His ways, and among His works, before He made any other thing; He founded me before the ages. In the beginning, before He formed the earth, before He brought forth the fountains of waters, before the mountains were made strong, before all the hills, He brought me forth.” He is also styled First-born, as the apostle has declared: “who is the first-born of every creature.” The first-born, however, is not by nature a different person from the Wisdom, but one and the same. Finally, the Apostle Paul says that “Christ (is) the power of God and the wisdom of God.”

dropoffyourkeylee

I concur with Earnest here. The Wisdom/Christ identity predates Russell and the JWs by many centuries.

road to nowhere

Witnesses borrow all their beliefs. Maybe the lone exception would be overlapping generations

slimboyfat

The link was well established in the early church so that the major Trinitarian advocates of the fourth century, Alexander and Athanasius didn’t disagree that Proverbs 8:22ff applied to Jesus but rather disputed the meaning of wisdom being “created” in this passage.

There are many parallels to wisdom in John 1, including for example the idea of the Word/Wisdom pitching its tent with mankind.

Vanderhoven7

Hi Bloty,

Welcome to the forum by the way!

The problem JWs had until 1954 was constantly being accused of worshipping two gods. After receiving new light in 1954 they now only worship one god through a god, Jesus aka Michael the archangel. Problem solved!

peacefulpete

https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Projects/Reln91/Gender/Gnosticism.htm

Wisdom as an hypostasis of God was a flourishing concept in late Judaism and early Christianity. In recent comments I've mentioned how similar concepts such as the "Logos" certainly inspired a formal Trinitarian doctrine in later years.

neat blue dog

Food for thought, thank you

Blotty

Slimboy said: "Alexander and Athanasius didn’t disagree that Proverbs 8:22ff applied to Jesus but rather disputed the meaning of wisdom being “created” in this passage."

Tell me if I'm wrong or not getting the point here, but the fact that these bibles make the correlation between Prov 8:22 and Rev 3:14 where John uses arkhe (Not arkhon, Which he EXCLUSIVELY uses for "Ruler") + the word used in the Septuagint literally mean "created" or "brought forth" would indicate its creation.

As far as im aware even the bibles that render it "begotten" also submit too this as to be "begotten" do you not have to be born (or created in other words)?

Blotty

Earnest, Thank you very much for this information
& everyone else

An interesting Observation of some Bibles

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